2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Mackinnon at the very least?? So at the very least, he’d be one of, if not the best players in the game today. At the very least.

There is no scenario you can dream up where Eichel gets as good as MacKinnon. That’s not to say he isn’t one of the most elite forwards in the game. But he’s no MacKinnon.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

There is no scenario you can dream up where Eichel gets as good as MacKinnon. That’s not to say he isn’t one of the most elite forwards in the game. But he’s no MacKinnon.

Mackinnon found another level in his 5th season. It looked like Eichel was doing the same last year, but has regressed a little this season.
Hard to figure out what is going on in Buffalo. Look at what's happening with Rasmus Dahlin too.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

BUF has never had a goalie and the D is just a mess. Some decent d-men, but everyone is playing at least 1 slot above ideal.

And what does this have to do with Eichel and Eichel being a better player? Connor McDavid, who people believe Eichel is in the same strata, hasn't complained about crap defense or bad goaltending as he ripped apart the NHL on the offensive side of the puck. As bad as the Oilers are, being outscored year-after-year, McDavid has been a minus player only twice in his career. The guy is +51 playing on the Edmonton Oilers and has made guys like Chaisson and Kassian passable first line players. Eichel? He's -69 and has made no one look good. If Eichel is half the player people suggest, he should be dominating while he's on the ice, not being dominated.

[chedder]

Sam Bennett is trending on twitter. Got all excited for some news. Alas, its some cyclist that's trending.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by New Era

And what does this have to do with Eichel and Eichel being a better player? Connor McDavid, who people believe Eichel is in the same strata, hasn't complained about crap defense or bad goaltending as he ripped apart the NHL on the offensive side of the puck. As bad as the Oilers are, being outscored year-after-year, McDavid has been a minus player only twice in his career. The guy is +51 playing on the Edmonton Oilers and has made guys like Chaisson and Kassian passable first line players. Eichel? He's -69 and has made no one look good. If Eichel is half the player people suggest, he should be dominating while he's on the ice, not being dominated.

I’m not suggesting Eichel is as good as McDavid but I think sometimes as Flames fans we exaggerate how bad the oilers are. Draisaitl is hands down better than any player that Eichel plays with. He’s probably better than Eichel

I also look as an example at Doughty. Once considered maybe the best dman in the nhl and put up huge numbers was minus 50 in the last 2 seasons. Did he forget how to play? Or is playing on a very bad team hard to dominate? The kings seem to be improving and doughty all of a sudden remembered how to play hockey again as his numbers are off the charts good again

If the Flames can add Eichel maybe we shouldn’t offer the farm but he is more of a franchise player than anyone we have. His plus minus shouldn’t stop treliving from making a offer to get him

[1_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

And what does this have to do with Eichel and Eichel being a better player? Connor McDavid, who people believe Eichel is in the same strata, hasn't complained about crap defense or bad goaltending as he ripped apart the NHL on the offensive side of the puck. As bad as the Oilers are, being outscored year-after-year, McDavid has been a minus player only twice in his career. The guy is +51 playing on the Edmonton Oilers and has made guys like Chaisson and Kassian passable first line players. Eichel? He's -69 and has made no one look good. If Eichel is half the player people suggest, he should be dominating while he's on the ice, not being dominated.

As much as I hate McDavid mainly cause he's an Oiler and he's so good you have a very good point here. One could easily argue that Eichel has had a much better supporting cast to work with (other than Draisatl) than McDavid has had in his career. I agree Eichel isn't in the same category as McDavid but he's better than anyone we have on the Flames by a long shot...

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by New Era

And I would argue that Eichel is not the sum of his parts. Those wingers you listed have all been quality players elsewhere (with the exception of Reinhart) but haven't done much with Eichel. Is that on them, or also on Eichel? Every time I watch him I don't come away impressed, especially when he's being paid $10M a season. He should be elevating the talent around him for that kind of coin, and he does not elevate the talent that plays with him. Yes, he's skilled with the puck, but he is not good at making his line or team better. And yes, he is brutal in the faceoff dot. I would not be inclined to believe he lives up to the hype and become McEichel here, which is what the fans really hope for. They want someone flashy like McHobo and don't give a #### about the outcome.

TBH, this whole scenario reminds me of the days when the Oilers had Gretzky and the Flames had a rag-tag bunch of no bodies. The fans had such a hard on for finding a center that was as flashy and productive as Gretzky, not recognizing that we had the better "team." I like the talent on the roster right now and think they just need to be managed right. I don't think they need a McHobo as the cost of that player and the escalation of contracts of anyone who plays with him pretty well makes the rest of the team terrible. If this team is focused we know it can be one of the top teams in the NHL. It is unfortunate we've wasted years of good contracts while going with inexperienced or bargain bin coaches.

Did you miss Skinners career year? Goes to sign a huge deal and looks like he has given up.
Okposo had healthy issues no one wanted to touch... buffalo being desperate signed him anyways...
Kane was a cancer in Winnipeg, he looked uninterested in Buffalo

Sorry I dont think the "he doesnt elevate other players" argument holds weight. How good is olofsson without eichel?

O'Reilly is an interesting case study there... seems he regressed significantly after going to buffalo even saying he lost the drive to play. Players going to buffalo to die is an organization issue, not an eichel issue.

Even McDavid couldnt carry a franchise to playoffs until they added some pieces.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

As much as I hate McDavid mainly cause he's an Oiler and he's so good you have a very good point here. One could easily argue that Eichel has had a much better supporting cast to work with (other than Draisatl) than McDavid has had in his career. I agree Eichel isn't in the same category as McDavid but he's better than anyone we have on the Flames by a long shot...

Except he isn't. Nothing points to him being a better player than anything we have on our roster. Jesus, if one of our guys produced at that clip but was that big a defensive liability he would be run out of town on a rail. This grass is always greener stuff is usually bull####. If a guy plays one way on one team he usually plays that way on the next one. Very seldom do you make a trade where a guy dramatically improves or his game changes. Unless you are trading futures (picks and prospects) when you make a trade you are trading for the player you know, not the player you hope the guy turns into.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Did you miss Skinners career year? Goes to sign a huge deal and looks like he has given up.
Okposo had healthy issues no one wanted to touch... buffalo being desperate signed him anyways...
Kane was a cancer in Winnipeg, he looked uninterested in Buffalo

Uh huh. So shouldn't Eichel have had them build on their success elsewhere and not go the other way? Yeah, there's something wrong in Buffalo. Maybe it's their "franchise player" isn't that franchise after all?

Sorry I dont think the "he doesnt elevate other players" argument holds weight. How good is olofsson without eichel?

Pretty damn good? Has been a very good player at every level he's played at. 27 goals in 50 games for Frolunda. 30 goals in 66 AHL games for Rochester. 20 goals in his rookie season in Buffalo.

O'Reilly is an interesting case study there... seems he regressed significantly after going to buffalo even saying he lost the drive to play. Players going to buffalo to die is an organization issue, not an eichel issue.

Yes, O'Reilly is an interesting case study. O'Reilly's career year prior to the move to Buffalo was 28 goals and 64 points, with an average year (discounting rookie and sophomore seasons of 26 points and his 2012-13 20 point season) being 58 points. Once he moved to Buffalo his goal production took a small drop from his career year, but was almost identical to his average in Colorado (21 goals) and points (58). When he went to St. Louis he had his career year of 28 goals and 77 points, but he's been between a 65-70 point player since that high. And all that took was going to a Stanley Cup winning team laden with talented players. His big jump wasn't that unexpected IMO, not when you have guys like Tarasenko, Schenn, Perron, Bozek, Schwartz, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester, and on and on. Could we expect the same result if Eichel came to Calgary, especially after having to off load the roster players needed to make the deal? Then again, the Sabres took a bag of crap for O'Reilly, so maybe the hit wouldn't be that bad... after the cap considerations are worked out. If we could get him for the equivalent of Backlund, Ryan, Pellettier/Zary, and a 1st, then more power to the Flames. But if the cost is Tkachuk, Monahan, a prospect, and a 1st, that's a big loss for the Flames and the talent isn't there to replicate the O'Reilly bounce.

Even McDavid couldnt carry a franchise to playoffs until they added some pieces.

Yes, but McHobo has ripped this league apart offensively. Eichel hasn't even been close. Jesus, he's 150+ points behind McHobo! And the talent level that Eichel has had to work with in Buffalo hasn't been that bad. Something is wrong there, no doubt, but Eichel should not be given a pass in that mess. He's supposedly some franchise player, well be one and make your team better.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

For an experiment drop Monahan as Gaudreau's center and think of a player that's a natural center with speed.

Spoiler!

Dube

I don’t know if Dube is ready for the center role yet. He’s not the strongest guy on his skates nor is he very strong on the puck. I still see him getting easily pushed around compared to say a Mangiapane. Maybe when Dube gets that man strength and can start shielding the puck better against bigger centers, then i think he’ll have a shot playing up the middle.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except he isn't. Nothing points to him being a better player than anything we have on our roster. Jesus, if one of our guys produced at that clip but was that big a defensive liability he would be run out of town on a rail. This grass is always greener stuff is usually bull####. If a guy plays one way on one team he usually plays that way on the next one. Very seldom do you make a trade where a guy dramatically improves or his game changes. Unless you are trading futures (picks and prospects) when you make a trade you are trading for the player you know, not the player you hope the guy turns into.

You think Eichel is no better than Johnny , monahan , or Tkachuk? Think your out to lunch.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except he isn't. Nothing points to him being a better player than anything we have on our roster. Jesus, if one of our guys produced at that clip but was that big a defensive liability he would be run out of town on a rail. This grass is always greener stuff is usually bull####. If a guy plays one way on one team he usually plays that way on the next one. Very seldom do you make a trade where a guy dramatically improves or his game changes. Unless you are trading futures (picks and prospects) when you make a trade you are trading for the player you know, not the player you hope the guy turns into.

Have you ever seen Jack Eichel play? This guy would easily be the #1 center on the Flames. He has the ability to make something out of nothing, the ability to create his own shot and it’s an excellent shot too. Flames’ centers on the otherhand require their best playmakers who happen to be wingers (Gaudreau, Tkachuk) to produce. I think Eichel would be right up there with Mackinnon if he could just stay healthy. The difference isn’t really his even strength scoring, it’s his powerplay points that doesn’t measure up. McDavid and Draisaitl make hay on the PP and are at the top tier 5 on 4, Mackinnon falls into the next tier and then Jack Eichel probably drops another tier. Personally, I think Gaudreau and Eichel together would be magic on the ice at all strengths and both would help elevate eachother.

[Saqe]

Eichel is mailing it in again so he's clearly not at his best right now. But when he is on he's really dynamic offensively but pretty bad defensively. My main problem is him quitting again on the team, not a very good sign.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

You think Eichel is no better than Johnny , monahan , or Tkachuk? Think your out to lunch.

When somebody is so far off the rocker you just gotta laugh. This guy doesn't have a clue.

[kyuss275]

Read an article that said victor arvidson of the predators might be available. Think he would fit nicely on the mony line. He is a bit small though.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except he isn't. Nothing points to him being a better player than anything we have on our roster. Jesus, if one of our guys produced at that clip but was that big a defensive liability he would be run out of town on a rail. This grass is always greener stuff is usually bull####. If a guy plays one way on one team he usually plays that way on the next one. Very seldom do you make a trade where a guy dramatically improves or his game changes. Unless you are trading futures (picks and prospects) when you make a trade you are trading for the player you know, not the player you hope the guy turns into.

Eichel may not win any Selke's, but is he really any worse than Johnny defensively?

FWIW his last 3 years +/- were: -9, +5, -11.

Young Jack got his caved in for -54 in his first 3 seasons, but age 24-26 ROR was -40 those same years. And then won the Selke and Conn Smythe the next year.

There is something in the water in BUF.

[GranteedEV]

using +/- to evaluate players lol

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

You think Eichel is no better than Johnny , monahan , or Tkachuk? Think your out to lunch.

Trades to make the fans happy.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk, Monahan, Pelletier, 2021 1st rounder ($13.375M)
To Calgary: Eichel, Montour ($13.875M)

To Nashville: Gaudreau, Kylington, Simon, 2nd in 2021 ($8.24M)
To Calgary: Forsberg, Borowiecki ($8M)

To Boston: Hanifin, Robinson, 3rd in 2021 ($5.65M)
to Calgary: DeBrusk, Kase ($6.275M)

Out: Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Simon, Robinson, Kylington, Hanifin ($27.265M)
In: Eichel, Forsberg, DeBrusk, Kase, Borowiecki, Montour ($28.15M)

Forsberg-Eichel-Lindholm
Debrusk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom-Ryan-Ritchie
Kase (IR)

Giordano-Anderson
Valimaki-Tanev
Boroweicki-Montour
Nesterov

Not sure the team is any better, but it is different and has a "game breaker" on it.

[Harry Lime]

You're throw ins of Pelletier and Kylington irks me. Kase has not been good this season, when playing. I think he could be had for a third and sending Nordstrom back home.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

You're throw ins of Pelletier and Kylington irks me. Kase has not been good this season, when playing. I think he could be had for a third and sending Nordstrom back home.

They aren't throw ins. They are important pieces to make deals work. You have to give to get, and since our players are total #### and the other team's players are superstars you you have give until it really hurts. That is what I believe the deals would take, based on the projections of our players by our fans. Plus, you have to even out salaries to make deals work. Cap hits count just as much as player value these days, sometimes more.

BTW... real good catch on Kase "not being good" this season. He's been on IR for the majority of the season, having played two games. He's in there to balance out cap hits.