Hamilton vs Carlson (a "basic stats" comparison)

[FanIn80]

Lately, I've seen some folks salivating over Carlson, and some others lobbying to trade Hamilton (and some folks do both). This got me wondering if this is just a real-world version of the Family Guy "box instead of the boat" thing...

So, here are three comparisons I've done up. I don't understand the advanced stats enough to get into them, so I stuck with the basics: GP, G, A, P, +/-.

Note: It may look confusing at first, but the comparisons are lined up based on the seasons.

Hamilton vs Carlson: Careers

Spoiler!

Hamilton vs Carlson: Same Ages

Spoiler!

Hamilton vs Carlson: Same Seasons

Spoiler!

It seems like they both have similar basic stats, while playing for (vastly) differently-skilled teams. Hamilton is three years younger and is trending towards being the better goal scorer while not having as much skill around him. Carlson has a lot more assists, but has played his entire career with Ovechkin/Backstrom.

The real question (in my opinion) is if Hamilton is already a Carlson, and he's three years younger, what's he going to be when he starts getting into his prime in 3-4 years?


Edit: The "Hamilton is already a Carlson" thing is just my own conclusion based on what I've posted. Obviously not everyone will share that sentiment, which is point of this thread. Who do/would you prefer?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Hamilton is a better player than Carlson, no question.

[Enoch Root]

Not to take anything away from Carlson, but Hamilton would be putting up a lot more points than he is now if he were playing on that Washington team in Carlson's place. Carlson had 32 PP points to Hamilton's 12 for instance.

And he is 3 years younger. 25 is still pre-prime for defensemen.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not to take anything away from Carlson, but Hamilton would be putting up a lot more points than he is now if he were playing on that Washington team in Carlson's place. Carlson had 32 PP points to Hamilton's 12 for instance.

And he is 3 years younger. 25 is still pre-prime for defensemen.

Hopefully we finally have a coach that'll realize Hamilton is the best on the team at actually getting the puck to the net on the PP. If Dougie isn't on the 1st unit this year I'll scream.

[dino7c]

Flames have 3 forwards who are good offensively...always bugs me when people say Hamilton has tons of goals but not many assists. Team doesn't have much finish

Anyway to the people who question Hamilton's value just watch the teams line up to give Carlson a ridiculous contact.

[memphusk]

I like seeing the age go up every year on the Hamilton talk. Can't wait until he's only 28 he has room to grow.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by memphusk

I like seeing the age go up every year on the Hamilton talk. Can't wait until he's only 28 he has room to grow.

Two things:

1) it was brought up relative to Carlson's

2) 28 is in fact still pretty young for defensemen - just the beginning of their prime.

[Barca]

why are we comparing them again?

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Two things:

1) it was brought up relative to Carlson's

2) 28 is in fact still pretty young for defensemen - just the beginning of their prime.

Sure. Wait until he's 29. Even better.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Barca

why are we comparing them again?

Why not? It's the offseason, and it's nice to see discussion. You could have figured out from the thread title what this was about and gone on to the next thread.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Why not? It's the offseason, and it's nice to see discussion. You could have figured out from the thread title what this was about and gone on to the next thread.

i thought that this thread was about potentially signing him if the flames decided to trade Hamilton...

mah bad.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames have 3 forwards who are good offensively...always bugs me when people say Hamilton has tons of goals but not many assists. Team doesn't have much finish

Anyway to the people who question Hamilton's value just watch the teams line up to give Carlson a ridiculous contact.

Is this actually a 'thing'?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

There's no doubt that Hamilton brings it on the stat sheet, and 95% of the time, he's a very good player. However, he still has those 5% moments where he's lazy and takes too many penalties as a result (you can see the PIM comparisons to Carlson are double). Those PIMs are not of the roughing-up-around-the-net or checking-with-enthusiasm variety. They are lazy stick infractions, which should never happen for a guy with that length and ability to skate.

Dougie does a lot of things well physically, but the lazy penalty thing is completely mental and he's now at an age where it should no longer be excused as part of a young defenseman's progression. He needs to cut these down ASAP in order to move into the conversation of a great 1st pairing defenseman.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Dougie does a lot of things well physically, but the lazy penalty thing is completely mental and he's now at an age where it should no longer be excused as part of a young defenseman's progression. He needs to cut these down ASAP in order to move into the conversation of a great 1st pairing defenseman.

He's on the best pairing in the league - he's already an elite 1st pairing defenceman. Giordano and Hamilton are being underrated around here due to lack of team success - but you can't hold Gio and Hamilton responsible for just how bad our 2nd and 3rd pairings have been in recent years, or how bad our depth up front is.

Hamilton has the best CF% in the league for defenceman at 57.4 - that's the 2nd best CF% in the entire league behind Matthew Tkachuk (57.7) and 0.1 better than Patrice Bergeron who is at 57.3. Giordano has a CF% of 57.1.

Hamilton led the NHL in goals by a defenceman. Most measurable stats out there show Hamilton is an elite defenceman - but we are being hyper critical talking about a "5%". Do you think Karlsson doesn't make a lot of mistakes? Or Doughty? There is no perfect player, we just get over-exposed to our own players and nitpick to a crazy degree.

Dougie Hamilton is elite and it's not really debatable at this stage.

Hamilton is better than Carlson today.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He's on the best pairing in the league - he's already an elite 1st pairing defenceman. Giordano and Hamilton are being underrated around here due to lack of team success - but you can't hold Gio and Hamilton responsible for just how bad our 2nd and 3rd pairings have been in recent years, or how bad our depth up front is.

Hamilton has the best CF% in the league for defenceman at 57.4 - that's the 2nd best CF% in the entire league behind Matthew Tkachuk (57.7) and 0.1 better than Patrice Bergeron who is at 57.3. Giordano has a CF% of 57.1.

Hamilton led the NHL in goals by a defenceman. Most measurable stats out there show Hamilton is an elite defenceman - but we are being hyper critical talking about a "5%". Do you think Karlsson doesn't make a lot of mistakes? Or Doughty? There is no perfect player, we just get over-exposed to our own players and nitpick to a crazy degree.

Dougie Hamilton is elite and it's not really debatable at this stage.

Hamilton is better than Carlson today.

It most certainly is, hence the debate we are currently having.

None of your points are items I disagree with, but you didn't address my major grievance, which is lazy penalties due to lack of awareness, effort, or anticipation of the play. This doesn't mean he isn't allowed to make some mistakes, but this happens pretty regularly, probably at least once a game. He doesn't always get a penalty call, but he often gets caught in these situations. Without Giordano, I get the feeling that he'd be exposed more often for these errors. My 5% quantification was being generous to Hamilton. This isn't about nitpicking, this is about being aware of a flaw in his game. If you want to ignore it, that's fine, but it happens far too often for my liking.

[Saqe]

I wouldn't put Hamilton in the elite category like Karlsson, Doughty etc.



But offensively he has elite tools for sure.


And I agree with Cali Panther, I think we would see a lot more flaws in Dougie's game if he wasn't playing with Gio.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Dougie Hamilton is elite and it's not really debatable at this stage.

I believe it can be debated. not saying he won't be elite in the future, but there is plenty of room to debate it now.

for example, how much is his play being supported by Gio?
let him be the anchor of his own defensive pairing for a season and we'll see if he really is elite.
Let's see if on his own he's a better Gio or turns into a Brodie.

[dino7c]

Most top pairing dmen play with a good partner lol

Hence top pairing

[Huntingwhale]

Hamilton is a very good. But elite? Not yet. Elite is Doughty, Hedman, Subban, Karlsson. Legit game breakers on the back end who are also perrenial Norris nominees.

Hamilton has one single top 9 Norris finish, and no all-star selection.

Doughty has 8 top 10 Norris finishes (including a Norris and another 3 more nominations) and 3 all-star selections.

I love Dougie Hamilton on the flames and think Doughty is a tool, but one is elite and one is not.

Hamilton has the tool set and time on his side but he doesn't belong in the 'elite' conversation.

[rhino]

Not sure the reason for this post??