Tkachuk: Matthews deal 'definitely set the bar'

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Darth Tkachuk

What I want, and what happens will ultimately be totally different. I gave stats too. The point I'm making is that Mathews is clearly not 3 million dollars a year better than Tkachuk. A fact Tkachuk and his agent are likely to press. I'm not saying Tkachuk is getting 11 a year, I'm saying he's getting at least 9 (hence the 3 million discrepancy I reference). You seem to feel Matthews is worth 3 million more a year, based on the few metrics Matthews has on his side in the comparison. I feel the stats show that simply isn't the case. Indeed, I think anyone that thinks Tkachuk is worth 3 million less a year than Matthews are dilusuonal. And, as I said, if BT can get Tkachuk under 9, he's a wizard. But I'm not holding my breath.

What am I missing here? It seems pretty clear that Matthews has been consistently more productive than Tkachuk since joining the League.

What "stats show that simply isn't true"?

[Enoch Root]

Is Darth Tkachuk the reincarnation of Gaudreauvertime?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What am I missing here? It seems pretty clear that Matthews has been consistently more productive than Tkachuk since joining the League.

What "stats show that simply isn't true"?

How amazing is it we are even having a conversation about who is a better player between Matthews and Tkachuk?

What an awesome draft pick.

[Darth Tkachuk]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What am I missing here? It seems pretty clear that Matthews has been consistently more productive than Tkachuk since joining the League.

What "stats show that simply isn't true"?

Again, I'm not saying Tkachuk is better than Matthews. Im saying the differences in statistics and play does not warrent a 3 million dollar difference in what their next contracts could be. And again I think people that think it does, are dillusional. But I guess time will tell.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Darth Tkachuk

Again, I'm not saying Tkachuk is better than Matthews. Im saying the differences in statistics and play does not warrent a 3 million dollar difference in what their next contracts could be. And again I think people that think it does, are dillusional. But I guess time will tell.

Maybe that means Matthews is paid too much, not that Tkachuk will deserve close to $11.6.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If there is acrimony between the rangers and flames in regards to the hamilton/adam fox negotiations, I would not bet against Gorton using an offersheet on a prominent, american born player.

What was that all about?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What was that all about?

The rangers wanted fox badly.

Tre wouldn't move him. Brooks reported fox wasn't even on the table.

Then deals him to Carolina.

[Geeoff]

I personally don't mind a 5-year deal for a player like Tkachuk. Being a #### disturber comes with long-term cumulative damage to the body.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The rangers wanted fox badly.

Tre wouldn't move him. Brooks reported fox wasn't even on the table.

Then deals him to Carolina.

In exchange for what? If Carolina gave the Flames a better deal than NYR, then why on earth would Jeff Gorten be bitter?

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Darth Tkachuk

Again, I'm not saying Tkachuk is better than Matthews. Im saying the differences in statistics and play does not warrent a 3 million dollar difference in what their next contracts could be. And again I think people that think it does, are dillusional. But I guess time will tell.

There are also the matters of their draft positions, the positions they play, their speed, and the expectations of their future production. Winger is the lowest paid position on the ice (and there seem to be more high-quality left wingers than right wingers), while #1 centres are the highest paid players on most teams.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In exchange for what? If Carolina gave the Flames a better deal than NYR, then why on earth would Jeff Gorten be bitter?

The speculation is that the flames refused to talk trade for fox, probably because he is worth more to the rangers than any team in the league.

If the rangers had a top prospect from Calgary who grew up a flames fan and wanted to play for the flames, and the flames tried to get him from the rangers, and the rangers were like 'nah, not available' and then a week later the rangers traded him to Winnipeg, you can bet Tre would be annoyed.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In exchange for what? If Carolina gave the Flames a better deal than NYR, then why on earth would Jeff Gorten be bitter?

Interesting.

What would the Ranger equivalent been?

Zibanejad and Sjkei?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Interesting.

What would the Ranger equivalent been?

Zibanejad and Sjkei?

The rangers were reportedly uninterested in Dougie.

I have to believe that was a relatively common sentiment around the league.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The speculation is that the flames refused to talk trade for fox, probably because he is worth more to the rangers than any team in the league.

If the rangers had a top prospect from Calgary who grew up a flames fan and wanted to play for the flames, and the flames tried to get him from the rangers, and the rangers were like 'nah, not available' and then a week later the rangers traded him to Winnipeg, you can bet Tre would be annoyed.

I suppose he might be annoyed, but don't buy that it is keeping him awake at night while he plots his revenge. Jeff Gorten is smart enough to recognize that Fox was an integral piece in the Carolina trade, which was likely a much bigger deal than he was willing to entertain. (On the flip-side, knowing the trading history between the Flames and the Rangers I don't doubt he can sense Treliving's reluctance to trade them one of his top prospects.)

If Gorten goes after Tkachuk with a RFA offer sheet it will be because this is a player he wants at a cost he is willing to front. It won't be out of some juvenile desire for revenge.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The speculation is that the flames refused to talk trade for fox, probably because he is worth more to the rangers than any team in the league.

If that's true, presumably they'd offer more for him than any team in the league. In which case, they should still be able to get him from Carolina (who have a glut of blue liners and need scoring).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I suppose he might be annoyed, but don't buy that it is keeping him awake at night while he plots his revenge. Jeff Gorten is smart enough to recognize that Fox was an integral piece in the Carolina trade, which was likely a much bigger deal than he was willing to entertain. (On the flip-side, knowing the trading history between the Flames and the Rangers I don't doubt he can sense Treliving's reluctance to trade them one of his top prospects.)

If Gorten goes after Tkachuk with a RFA offer sheet it will be because this is a player he wants at a cost he is willing to front. It won't be out of some juvenile desire for revenge.

Sure, but if Sweeney can get what he wants for Hamilton and #### over chiarelli and the oilers at the same time, that's a double win.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

If that's true, presumably they'd offer more for him than any team in the league. In which case, they should still be able to get him from Carolina (who have a glut of blue liners and need scoring).

I agree.

I think the presumption from Tre was that the rangers offer needed to be higher than anyone elses, and it's the same rationale for why Burke held onto cammalleri because he wasnt getting the price he wanted. It's about setting a tone for how you operate as a GM. Different GMs have different styles.

Tre already has the public rep of being a dogged and tough trade negotiator. I'm sure on the other end this can get annoying.

It's the same idea behind turning down work for below your usual rate.

It's not some big conspiracy I'm proposing, just that if their previous history is Tre holding his feet to the fire, offer sheeting tkachuk--a player the rangers organization would friggin love--would be an opportunity for the rangers to return the favor.

They also have the assets in place to absorb an offersheet without it really hurting that bad. They have all of their first 3 round picks in the next 3 years. They drafted 5 times in the last 2 years in, twice in the top 10. They look like they will add more high end picks and prospects this year selling off top tier rentals.

They have the cash to throw around to make it harder for the flames in terms of the signing bonus vs salary structure, the cap space to offer an overpayment and quite frankly it is the prospect of living in New York vs Calgary.

Tkachuk to the rangers via offersheet is the second likeliest offer sheet scenario behind marner in my mind. Neither is likely, but I think it's something legitimately on the radar.

[GullFoss]

https://theathletic.com/804501/2019/...ing-different/

Really great article about how Crosby, Malkin and Letang all decided to take less to help the penguins stay competitive.

Interesting parallel for the flames where all the expensive players - Johnny, Monahan, Gio, backlund, lindholm - are all on relatively decent value contracts.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

https://theathletic.com/804501/2019/...ing-different/

Really great article about how Crosby, Malkin and Letang all decided to take less to help the penguins stay competitive.

Interesting parallel for the flames where all the expensive players - Johnny, Monahan, Gio, backlund, lindholm - are all on relatively decent value contracts.

Every single one of those guys are on fair value deals for when they were signed. They've become steals but they weren't on singing day.

In Johnny's case, he had two years, one where he was calder nominated and the next when he was 6th in scoring. He signed a deal pretty equivalent to Tarasenko, though it was cheaper because he had no offersheet risk and no arb rights. In the years that have followed, the 6th overall in scoring finish proved to be no fluke, and he's one of the top 5 offensive threats when he's playing his best.

Monahan signed the same summer as Mackinnon, Barkov, and Scheifele. He makes more than all of them. He is (comfortably imo but you can debate) the worst of the 4. He was also the worst of the 4 if you watched them all at the time but he had the best counting stats so he got paid.

Giordano signed until he was 39 at 1D money. Of course now we realize Giordano is a unicorn, but the smart money would have been on this contract turning out more like Neal's will than anything else.

Backlund is a 50 point center who will be making 5.35 until he is 34. He is a great player and I love the guy and I expect him to retire a Flame but that is absolutely fair for what he brings. Could he have got more as a UFA, of course, so I suppose this might be the best case for a "guy who's taken a discount".

Lindholm played 5 seasons in Carolina and never broke 50 points, and the Flames paid him like the second line winger that he was. He's killing it this year but there was no indication that he had this much more to give. It would be like signing Sam Bennett to a 7year/3.5mil deal then saying he took a discount if he were to break out a be a 55 point guy.

Treliving has negotiated hard and obtained fair deals for most of his talent. When compared to the Matthews abomination and the Draisaitl lunacy he looks a like a genius, but he's just doing his job and getting what's best for the team. He played Gaudreau's negotiation so well and made use of all his leverage. I expect him to do the same with Tkachuk and all of the other upcoming contracts.

[GullFoss]

I don't disagree with you. But as of today, all those contracts are value contracts and they all have a lot of term left. So the fact is that all those players are provide great value for cap hit.