2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[browna]

Atkins and Shapiro seem the type that want a manager who wont disagree with them. Any veteran guy (like Gibby who wanted nothing to do with them) who has had success and has his way of doing things, and can push back in upper management, is thus out of the question, which is possibly why the natural internal replacement in Mattingly, hasn't had the trigger pulled to replace Schneider.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by browna

Atkins and Shapiro seem the type that want a manager who wont disagree with them. Any veteran guy (like Gibby who wanted nothing to do with them) who has had success and has his way of doing things, and can push back in upper management, is thus out of the question, which is possibly why the natural internal replacement in Mattingly, hasn't had the trigger pulled to replace Schneider.

No doubt to all of this. I still don't see Schneider as the material person responsible for this nonsense this year. Atkins hasn't done good enough job for his tenure here. To me that accounts for 70% of what we see. 25% now to the players, and 5% to the coaching staff.

[browna]

Originally Posted by bluejays

No doubt to all of this. I still don't see Schneider as the material person responsible for this nonsense this year. Atkins hasn't done good enough job for his tenure here. To me that accounts for 70% of what we see. 25% now to the players, and 5% to the coaching staff.

He's not to blame, but I also said this when he replaced Montoya, and said it around the time after Charlie's first year; that neither of those men were going to be the manager of the team when it got really good AND had a chance to go deep. Placeholder managers to get the team to a certain level and then bring in a more experienced manager to push the team over the edge.

It's what AA did, pulling the trigger on Gibby 2.0 when he felt the team needed that extra push and personality element. Now, AA trusted and had a good relationship with Gibby so it was easy.

Again, Shapiro has hired two guys who came cheap and had their first managerial gig, so much more willing to listen to those above to their deteriment, on full display in Minnesota last playoffs with Barrios.

Will Shapiro risk losing control of the team like he has now, by hiring a manager to run things his way? Maybe, maybe not. When an experienced manager tells Atkins he needs x, y, z types of players, not so sure this president and this GM want that.

As mentioned, there are a few layers here to get to Shapiro. Manager takes the first hit, then the GM. On paper, they apparently will be back to start the year next year so there's an element of self preservation...but if they hire a manager who has a winning pedigree and he does well, but the GM and president can't work with him, there is an issue...so, solve the problem by not hiring an experienced manager.

[flambers]

Guessing the Jays will try to make band aid type of fixes going into next season, in terms of players acquisition. (i.e. another really poor offseason)

Jays I would think could be outside once again of the playoffs,

This will force the ownership with Shapiro leaving after 2025 season

Slow road ahead

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flambers

Guessing the Jays will try to make band aid type of fixes going into next season, in terms of players acquisition. (i.e. another really poor offseason)

Jays I would think could be outside once again of the playoffs,

This will force the ownership with Shapiro leaving after 2025 season

Slow road ahead

Yeah. I foresee long drawn out road too. Shame really.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by browna

He's not to blame, but I also said this when he replaced Montoya, and said it around the time after Charlie's first year; that neither of those men were going to be the manager of the team when it got really good AND had a chance to go deep. Placeholder managers to get the team to a certain level and then bring in a more experienced manager to push the team over the edge.

It's what AA did, pulling the trigger on Gibby 2.0 when he felt the team needed that extra push and personality element. Now, AA trusted and had a good relationship with Gibby so it was easy.

Again, Shapiro has hired two guys who came cheap and had their first managerial gig, so much more willing to listen to those above to their deteriment, on full display in Minnesota last playoffs with Barrios.

Will Shapiro risk losing control of the team like he has now, by hiring a manager to run things his way? Maybe, maybe not. When an experienced manager tells Atkins he needs x, y, z types of players, not so sure this president and this GM want that.

As mentioned, there are a few layers here to get to Shapiro. Manager takes the first hit, then the GM. On paper, they apparently will be back to start the year next year so there's an element of self preservation...but if they hire a manager who has a winning pedigree and he does well, but the GM and president can't work with him, there is an issue...so, solve the problem by not hiring an experienced manager.

Fair. The great unknown to me is coaching in baseball. I’ve always got the impression they are more one on one behind the scenes on instructing on tweaks to a players form/swing etc. but come game time which is what we see, their job is simple - pull the starter at the right time, decide on stealing or bunts, etc.

To me they’re less of a think on the fly compared to other sports during game time and are more about player prep behind the scenes. So personally with those assumptions I look at the team on paper and see they didn’t have much to work with, bat wise. So did they get the most from those bats? Maybe. They got a lot from Vlad this year. They should’ve been able to turn a few more guys into decent players no matter how little ceiling they have, but I do think they didn’t do well there. Again, low ceiling guys are going to likely revert to their means. So all in all I continue to place blame in Atkins mostly. He assembled low ceiling hitters with ample time. Missing out on Ohtani is a cop out. He had ages to get it right or contingency plan and failed flat.