2021 Blue Jays Season Thread

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Fans - "Jays, do something, we need pitching!"

Jays - *get another ace"

Fans - "No not that!!"

Lol, there's no winning.

I blame Brad Treliving

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Wanting them to do something is a lot different than wanting them to overpay to get something done.

I'm happy we have Berrios, but I think they paid too much. It doesn't have to be one or the other you know.

I just hope they can get Berrios extended and I hope he gets to pitch next year because there isn't a stoppage.

Is that not a reasonable stance?

Also, just because they have an abundance at a certain position doesn't mean they have to give it away either.

Except it's not giving it away.

Mediocre teams never go for it. Not every team that has the best record going into the post season wins it all every year.

Mediocre teams and franchises sit on their hands waiting for the "right time", scared to take a chance, and then never get the chance because the time is never right.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Shapiro and Atkins have done a great job of buliding a roster and prospect pool that is deep enough that you have the assets to make a move like this.

Saying they should be fired immediately (or even using the negative Shatkins nickname to start with) is ridiculous.

Huge price to pay but it's for a 27 year old pitcher with one year of control that they may be able to extend.

Anthopoulis gave up more than this for a 38 year old knuckleball pitcher in RA Dickey.

It’s about sustainability which this management group has preached. To overpay with that level for one guy is crazy. Giving one of those guys up was fair. To give both guys up for Barrios is severe overpayment in my view. Don’t pursue if that’s the price. How are they going to replace those guys prospect wise?

[Roof-Daddy]

They got Kay and SWR for Stroman who had a year control left.

Martin >>>>> Kay

Is Berrios >>>>> Stroman

No.

This is a huge over pay.

Again though, happy to add Berrios. Just frustrated at losing Martin.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

It is steep for sure, hope they can extend him beyond next season, if so it will be easier to digest. At least they aren’t sitting on their hands. This is fun.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is steep for sure, hope they can extend him beyond next season, if so it will be easier to digest. At least they aren’t sitting on their hands. This is fun.

Fun and gut wrenching at the same time lol

[cross16]

It's a high price but it's also what you pay for top of the rotation starters so I'm not sure I understand the freaking out. I'm a bit surprised it's for a pitcher for only 1.5 year of control but at the same time his age and profile fit their contention window so no reason why they can't re sign him. They were always going to have to make a trade like this.

I do like Martin, but I don't think he is the piece worth freaking out over they Jays are still stacked in INF prospects and I like someone like Orelvis actually has similar upside to Martin. SWR hurts and it's the surprise for me as I didn't think the Jays would trade such a high ceiling arm.

i don't mind the aggressive approach either as I do think this is a good team and it will be a good team next year but a huge piece holding them back was SP and they just got a great one. I think they can do something with it.

[Wastedyouth]

What's Berrios' WAR and what's these two guy's projected WAR.

Let's be analytical about this because, to be honest, no one here has a clue what these prospects "value" is league wide.

[alan21]

Just reading Twitter and a large portion of the organization was concerned about Austin Martin's power at the plate. With half of their top prospects being infielders, they were comfortable including him in this deal.

[Cheese]

I wish the Flames would make a deal like this!
This gives the Jays 3 top arms in Ryu, Berrios and Ray...maybe one more deal today?

[Jiggy_12]

Prospects are a funny thing. The Jays absolutely stole Martin at the draft, and he’s such a beast of a prospect and it was exciting to watch him develop.

But if you told me before the draft that the Jays would snag a draft pick at #5 and flip him (and their #8 prospect) for Jose Berrios I would have been ecstatic.

It’s funny how that all changes once there is a face and a name and a personality.

[Roof-Daddy]

Too bad Rogers wasn't included.

I imagine they had to outbid other AL teams that were likely driving the price up.

I really hope they have an extension in the hopper.

[SuperMatt18]

Atkins and Shapiro are both shrewd managers who don't like to sell on prospects and are good at analyzing talent.

They aren't going to give up on these guys unless they think the return is worth it.

I have faith in trusting Atkins and Shapiro here because IMO they've proven that they understand these players and prospects a lot better than we do.

Hell fans didn't like that we "only" got SWR and Kay for Stroman to start with because they weren't top prospects....now we are mad we traded SWR who developed into a top prospect.

[ben voyonsdonc]

You always have super high expectations for a blue chip prospect. As an asset, their value is often higher as a prospect because they can bust/fizzle when they go pro and all of that value disappears. Guys that seemed like they'd be legit big leaguers like Gose, Alford, Norris, Aaron Sanchez, etc - have all proven that a good prospect doesn't necessarily mean a guaranteed all star.

Clearly, Shapiro and Atkins believe that there is a possibility that the value for Martin and SWR might never be higher than it is today and decided to go for it. I would have preferred seeing Martin being the final piece in the building process. Once he was in the bigs, I was hoping it was then that the team should be pushing all in but that wasn't the calculus of the management.

[Jason14h]

Groshans will be the final piece, plus whichever INF they sign to a big deal next year (Siemen or one of the other FA SS)

It was either Groshans or Martin getting dealt. They have basically the same value/very close

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

You always have super high expectations for a blue chip prospect. As an asset, their value is often higher as a prospect because they can bust/fizzle when they go pro and all of that value disappears. Guys that seemed like they'd be legit big leaguers like Gose, Alford, Norris, Aaron Sanchez, etc - have all proven that a good prospect doesn't necessarily mean a guaranteed all star.

Clearly, Shapiro and Atkins believe that there is a possibility that the value for Martin and SWR might never be higher than it is today and decided to go for it. I would have preferred seeing Martin being the final piece in the building process. Once he was in the bigs, I was hoping it was then that the team should be pushing all in but that wasn't the calculus of the management.

This is exactly it.

Their value is almost never higher than when they are in AA turning heads. Plus with every team being increasingly hyper-conscious about years of control it's all teams want as a return. Trading roster for roster doesn't really happen anymore unless it's a salary dump.

Seeing Marting go the other way sucks, but his numbers in AA weren't exactly eye popping. He definitely is able to control the strike zone and draw his walks, but Moreno, Groshans, and now Orelvis Martinez were all outperforming him and are all younger. Still sucks, you get attached to these names.

SWR has really really struggled lately. Who knows what he will be. Again lots of promise. Unknown quantity. Berrios, however, is a known quantity that can help this current Jays team, that needs help, right now.

I am excited!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I wish the Flames would make a deal like this!
This gives the Jays 3 top arms in Ryu, Berrios and Ray...maybe one more deal today?

Next year, at minimum, they’ll have Ryu, Berrios and Manoah. Next year is going to be awesome.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Fans - "Jays, do something, we need pitching!"

Jays - *get another ace"

Fans - "No not that!!"

Lol, there's no winning.

You can want/like the acquisition, and still not like the price.

It's called discussing the details - kind of the point of forums like these, no?

IMO (as I have stated), it's a great acquisition that they need. The price is crazy-high. But I still like it because pitching is the most precious commodity.

The only thing we have from you so far is snarkiness.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I've read a few articles that Berrios could command $20-30 mil AAV once he's a free agent.

I hope he earns that.

[TBone290]

For a price like that, I would have expected a player like Jose Ramirez