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Old 04-21-2021, 08:10 AM   #321
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What a world we live in, kids don't fight anymore because mostly they don't know how because they aren't allowed to fight their own battles so they revert to weapons and ruin lives including their own, now days you can't punch a bully at school in the face because you'll likely get charged and kicked out.

I remember my Dad telling me 30 years ago he spanked me as a child for being bad because if he didn't I wouldn't have learned respect and rules, I laughed it off at the time but it seems he was right.

Society acts like now.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:13 AM   #322
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personally, i can't say i am impressed with sports teams releasing statements on social media about this verdict. Are they now going to offer commentary on all cases, or just select ones? Are they going to offer commentary on other social issues?

I follow teams on social media to get info on them, there are other sources for judicial and political insights and when i want them, i will seek them out.

with all that said, clearly this ruling prevented a huge potential demonstrations in the streets. I'd assume that there will be an appeal.
Gotta remember that when all this happened...sports leagues (NBA in particular) actually shut down for a bit including postponing games. So them addressing the final outcome is not overly surprising.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:20 AM   #323
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This is where we are. I mean we had the President of the United States, the night before, praying for a particular verdict of a criminal case. We had Trudeau, ever the opportunist, immediately releasing a video applauding the verdict. When has this ever happened? Did Bill Clinton have an opinion on the OJ Simpson case? In fact he told Americans to stand together.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/1519...portant-issues
Some of you are acting like your head has been in the sand for a year and you haven’t the faintest clue of what happened, the context around it, and what occurred the many weeks and months after.

“This is where we are! Society Opportunism! What about OJ?!” yeah give me a break.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:33 AM   #324
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Just saw the video, not sure how the cop doesn’t shoot her there. He can’t just stand there and watch a girl attempt murder. There are times when cops screw up and deserve to be punished for it, that wasn’t one of them.

There is a lot going on. For example, WTF is with the person kicking the woman who appears to be pregnant?



It's such a split second decision. As he ran towards her, he yelled for her to drop the knife. Does she understand? Does she compute? Is she mentally ill? We don't know. But she's got another girl pinned against the car, and the original call for police to arrive was because someone got stabbed, right? What information is he getting from dispatch? He is getting information and getting prepared in his head while driving there. This is very important.

So could the police have de-escalated? Could he have charged the girl with the knife, risking more stabs to both the pinned girl and himself? Is it even fair to analyze like this?
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:37 AM   #325
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What do you mean how did this get approved? PR teams are racing to the pinnacle of wokeness.
George Floyd might get a holiday named after him, i wouldn't put it past this government.
...... this is gross. And ridiculously dismissive of a long overdue problem. “Pinnacle of wokeness” But that’s it. Not important, only to people who wish to be “woke”.

Perfect opportunity to throw around hyperbolic ideas that aren’t being discussed at all. All in the name of dismissing this entire thing? Gross.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:45 AM   #326
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Gotta remember that when all this happened...sports leagues (NBA in particular) actually shut down for a bit including postponing games. So them addressing the final outcome is not overly surprising.
fair enough comment, and at that time i disagreed with that course of action.

to me this is the slippery slope. Which things cause you to sit out games? Which things cause teams to send out tweets. Here in Canada many first nations do not have potable water - should the flames players sit out a game for that? should the flames tweet about that?

which events make the cut?
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:57 AM   #327
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fair enough comment, and at that time i disagreed with that course of action.

to me this is the slippery slope. Which things cause you to sit out games? Which things cause teams to send out tweets. Here in Canada many first nations do not have potable water - should the flames players sit out a game for that? should the flames tweet about that?

which events make the cut?
Can't we just leave the line at "some events that ignite worldwide protests" and leave it at that for now?
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:00 AM   #328
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fair enough comment, and at that time i disagreed with that course of action.

to me this is the slippery slope. Which things cause you to sit out games? Which things cause teams to send out tweets. Here in Canada many first nations do not have potable water - should the flames players sit out a game for that? should the flames tweet about that?

which events make the cut?
The decisions at the time were mostly player driven decisions to sit out. It started with Black players who took the police killing of another Black man personally. It all started with the NBA where the majority of players are Black Americans. I don't know that it makes much sense for the Flames to be Tweeting about this case, but leagues that make their money from marketing their Black players absolutely should be supporting them, and they probably wouldn't have a decade or two ago.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:19 AM   #329
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...... this is gross. And ridiculously dismissive of a long overdue problem. “Pinnacle of wokeness” But that’s it. Not important, only to people who wish to be “woke”.

Perfect opportunity to throw around hyperbolic ideas that aren’t being discussed at all. All in the name of dismissing this entire thing? Gross.
Do you not agree that Pelosi is the pinnacle of wokeness? Looking up to the heavens and thanking Floyd for his sacrifice? That's her and her PR team surrounding her.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:21 AM   #330
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There is a lot going on. For example, WTF is with the person kicking the woman who appears to be pregnant?



It's such a split second decision. As he ran towards her, he yelled for her to drop the knife. Does she understand? Does she compute? Is she mentally ill? We don't know. But she's got another girl pinned against the car, and the original call for police to arrive was because someone got stabbed, right? What information is he getting from dispatch? He is getting information and getting prepared in his head while driving there. This is very important.

So could the police have de-escalated? Could he have charged the girl with the knife, risking more stabs to both the pinned girl and himself? Is it even fair to analyze like this?



Hopefully with everything that happened, investigations into shootings will be more open and transparent, I think that's a major step that has to happen.



I don't know how there was a real escalation in a chaotic situation like that. There was a very real threat to the pinned girl and the officer.



I think there is a discussion to have because in the last few days there's been points made that cops should be willing to jeopardize themselves rushing people with knives, and I think guns, or rushing into blind situation. While I agree that with Police officers they have to be willing to take heroic action, just like fire fighters rushing into fires. I don't know if that should be standing procedure though. making it standard procedure to rush into potentially fatal situations in that manner is going to lead to a lot of trauma and tragedy.



I still think that any comprehensive reform the police movement, has to include increased mental health and trauma resources for police officers, as well as the usual fair in terms of better recruiting and training.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:33 AM   #331
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Do you not agree that Pelosi is the pinnacle of wokeness? Looking up to the heavens and thanking Floyd for his sacrifice? That's her and her PR team surrounding her.
Pelosi is a right of centre opportunist, so if you consider wokeness entirely performative unless practiced by actual leftists, then I can somewhat agree with that premise.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:47 AM   #332
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Pelosi is a right of centre opportunist, so if you consider wokeness entirely performative unless practiced by actual leftists, then I can somewhat agree with that premise.

Yes. Actual leftists are boots on the ground making a difference. Wokeness is performed by opportunists. The right doesn't make this distinction which makes their arguments hollow.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:49 AM   #333
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Isn't that for the lawyers? I'm not suggesting disbarment. Nor am I suggesting this treatment for everyone. But if the court finds your "expert" position to be egregiously wrong, how can a reasonable person still consider you an expert?
Half the lawyers and experts are literally "wrong" in all cases that go to trial. They need to follow their professional standards, but due process demands that both sides of the story are heard. Judge/jury then must decide between the two.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:51 AM   #334
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Hopefully with everything that happened, investigations into shootings will be more open and transparent, I think that's a major step that has to happen.

I don't know how there was a real escalation in a chaotic situation like that. There was a very real threat to the pinned girl and the officer.

I think there is a discussion to have because in the last few days there's been points made that cops should be willing to jeopardize themselves rushing people with knives, and I think guns, or rushing into blind situation. While I agree that with Police officers they have to be willing to take heroic action, just like fire fighters rushing into fires. I don't know if that should be standing procedure though. making it standard procedure to rush into potentially fatal situations in that manner is going to lead to a lot of trauma and tragedy.

I still think that any comprehensive reform the police movement, has to include increased mental health and trauma resources for police officers, as well as the usual fair in terms of better recruiting and training.

Another part of this is the type of people that tend to gravitate towards policing are often ex-military. That's a huge problem IMO given that you're trying to retrain soldiers who have been programmed for everything to be a threat. I'd love to dig into some statistics on that.


It's also important why the cop was called to the scene and the information he's getting from dispatch. He is already amped up for a dangerous situation. So while we see that the cop jumped out of his car and shot the girl in less than 15 seconds, he's already gotten tons of information on the way there.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:57 AM   #335
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Another part of this is the type of people that tend to gravitate towards policing are often ex-military. That's a huge problem IMO given that you're trying to retrain soldiers who have been programmed for everything to be a threat. I'd love to dig into some statistics on that.
.
There are a couple of sources I saw that put the % of ex-military in the US police forces as 19%-20%. So that tells me it isn't ex-military alone that is driving the militarization of the US police.

Although, the US Military selling "used" equipment to them ain't helping.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:00 AM   #336
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Do you not agree that Pelosi is the pinnacle of wokeness? Looking up to the heavens and thanking Floyd for his sacrifice? That's her and her PR team surrounding her.
I don’t care what Pelosi said, and what Pelosi said shouldn’t have any impact on what you think of this case. At all. You’re literally flipping the unnecessarily political angle back, to use George Floyd’s death as a way to mock/discredit some old lady who works in government.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:02 AM   #337
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Another part of this is the type of people that tend to gravitate towards policing are often ex-military. That's a huge problem IMO given that you're trying to retrain soldiers who have been programmed for everything to be a threat. I'd love to dig into some statistics on that.


It's also important why the cop was called to the scene and the information he's getting from dispatch. He is already amped up for a dangerous situation. So while we see that the cop jumped out of his car and shot the girl in less than 15 seconds, he's already gotten tons of information on the way there.

I don't think there's anything really wrong with ex military becoming cops. But you're right the battlefield mentality is different then policing. However here's the rub. A lot of those veterans coming back from deployment into combat are already usually suffering from some form of PTSD and or other serious trauma's. Western Governments have miserably failed to support soldiers coming home, and they're not getting the treatment that they need. On top of that, yeah, I fully believe that training is poorly done, and that police recruiting is going to be more about enmasse replacing as experienced cops walk away
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:04 AM   #338
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I think the single biggest problem with police is the thin blue line mentality and the need to stand up for each other no matter what they are doing. That frayed a bit in this case, and other than the video was the biggest reason this case went differently. But still across the country, many cops feel it necessary to take Chauvin's side.

Police need to accept that there are bad apples within their ranks, and call them out or stop them when they are doing things that are unacceptable, and that instinct to always cover for each other needs to stop. That attitude has enabled so many of these terrible incidents, and has destroyed the trust in police for so many people.

I don't know how you remove that attitude, but nothing will be fixed until that is fixed.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:15 AM   #339
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Another part of this is the type of people that tend to gravitate towards policing are often ex-military. That's a huge problem IMO given that you're trying to retrain soldiers who have been programmed for everything to be a threat. I'd love to dig into some statistics on that.
Yeah, no. I'm a former military reservist (caveat: I received my discharge without ever being deployed to a combat zone, but I'm friends with many current and former members who have seen action overseas), and we are definitely not programmed trained to see everything as a threat. We are thoroughly instructed to fully assess the situation, follow the rules of engagement, and to be absolutely sure of our targets before firing so as to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties that will turn the local population against us. I know many military people who -- specifically because of their experiences in combat -- are absolutely disgusted by the poor discipline of many in law enforcement. If military personnel can be trained to not shoot unarmed civilians whilst serving in a much more dangerous environment than a police officer will ever encounter, why should we expect anything less from our cops?

You're partially right that there is a problem with the type of people that are attracted to become police officers, though, but the issue isn't so much with ex-military personnel. There is a subset of cops who were bullies as kids and never matured out of that attitude, and those people gravitate towards a career where they can continue being bullies as adults, only now they have the power of the state and the backing of the blue wall of the police union.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:39 AM   #340
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I'm not sure if this has already been posted. Bill Maher had an interesting guest who pointed out how little firearms training the police officers actually receive. This is a short clip of a longer interview that was quite eye opening. She basically says the job isn't that dangerous in reality but it is driven into every cop that danger lurks around every corner. Combine that fear with poor training and you get these types of killings.

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