2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[DeluxeMoustache]

Counterpoint
- Tkachuk has been the beneficiary from a fancy stats perspective of being stapled to the best 2 way center at the time
- He can’t skate all that well
- Commentators still trot out the ‘he drags his team into the battle’ nonsense when it has not been true here recently, certainly not this year, so he perhaps has perceived value out there that is higher than actual value
- He fails to raise his game in the playoffs. 5 points in 15 games across 3 years
- He talks big and there seems to be a predictability that once he runs his mouth pre game, he fails to live up to it

And the Flames seem to have issues with culture and accountability. If the idea is that there is a rift, and he has quit on the team, what kind of message does it send that this is the player they want to build around?

And as for that contract, Brad lost that negotiation, painted himself in the corner to the point that he has no RFA leverage. The prepayment looks to be bad value now, and the 9 million qualifier atrocious

Sadly, because he has negotiated himself in to a position with no leverage, the only way he gets significant value from the 6th overall is to concede to his demands

This probably belongs in the Treliving has to go thread

[SeanCharles]

Gotta love when things aren’t going well...

“Let’s trade Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk”

“Oh no Treliving is committed to those guys so he will trade Dube and Valimaki”

Not only have we lost patience with our best players but also with our best youngsters who are still finding their way in the league.

I’m as mad as the next guy but this is getting ridiculous.

Players have bad years and young players, who are new to the league, take time to develop.

I know we all want to end this pain and agony but the fog of misery is clouding our better judgment.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Gotta love when things aren’t going well...

“Let’s trade Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk”

“Oh no Treliving is committed to those guys so he will trade Dube and Valimaki”

Not only have we lost patience with our best players but also with our best youngsters who are still finding their way in the league.

I’m as mad as the next guy but this is getting ridiculous.

Players have bad years and young players, who are new to the league, take time to develop.

I know we all want to end this pain and agony but the fog of misery is clouding our better judgment.

I don't see a path to the Cup if we just bring back all the players you listed next season. We've seen what they can do: make the playoffs and go out in the first round sometimes and miss the playoffs sometimes.


Personally, I would keep Dubé but I don't think Sutter is a fan, which makes me think he could be part of a deal in the off-season.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I don't see a path to the Cup if we just bring back all the players you listed next season. We've seen what they can do: make the playoffs and go out in the first round sometimes and miss the playoffs sometimes.


Personally, I would keep Dubé but I don't think Sutter is a fan, which makes me think he could be part of a deal in the off-season.

How can you say he isn’t a fan in general?

I’m sure he isn’t pleased with his play lately but young players make mistakes.

It’s all a part of development.

And who are we getting that is going to be better than those other players in a trade?

The problem is we don’t have enough weapons and everyone wants to trade our only ones.

Changes need to be made, don’t get me wrong, but we need to be smart about it and not just trade to get pieces back that aren’t going to make us any better and just set us back a few years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

How can you say he isn’t a fan in general?

I’m sure he isn’t pleased with his play lately but young players make mistakes.

It’s all a part of development.

And who are we getting that is going to be better than those other players in a trade?

The problem is we don’t have enough weapons and everyone wants to trade our only ones.

Changes need to be made, don’t get me wrong, but we need to be smart about it and not just trade to get pieces back that aren’t going to make us any better and just set us back a few years.

Sutter was referring to the line of “Monahan and the kids” the other day, which probably says a fair bit of where he thinks Mangiapane and Dube are in their development. I think he’s giving Dube a bit of tough love.

[Poe969]

The reason I think most of the team needs to be changed is because of the rift. Johnny and Monahan need to be traded away for various reasons but Tkachuck needs to be traded because he seemed to have started something that drove apart the team and if everyone else is traded it'll seem like it's his team. His contract is a huge reason too, even though he's good, he won't be worth 9+ million on his next contract. He's a good player and I think if he's made available a lot of teams will be interested. If the team is seriously rebuilding, they should get a lot of cost controlled assets that will be ready around the same time. Tkachuck will likely be gone by the time this team starts to improve.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The reason I think most of the team needs to be changed is because of the rift. Johnny and Monahan need to be traded away for various reasons but Tkachuck needs to be traded because he seemed to have started something that drove apart the team and if everyone else is traded it'll seem like it's his team. His contract is a huge reason too, even though he's good, he won't be worth 9+ million on his next contract. He's a good player and I think if he's made available a lot of teams will be interested. If the team is seriously rebuilding, they should get a lot of cost controlled assets that will be ready around the same time. Tkachuck will likely be gone by the time this team starts to improve.

I think one of the things that drove a wedge into the team is Tkachuk's contract. Not the dollar amount or that he is the highest paid player, I really don't think players dwell too much on that. Salaries almost always climb. I think it's that Tkachuk's contract put the writing on the wall that he has one foot out the door and isn't invested in the big picture in Calgary. Other players signed long term deals with the intent on making something happen within the "window", but Tkachuk insisted on a contract that allows him to leave as soon as possible.

[Monahammer]

I think at most we will trade 2 out of Lindy, Tkachuk, Monahan, and Gaudreau. Likely only 1.
If it's one, I think it will be Johnny.

If it's two, I think it will be Monahan and Tkachuk.

Either way, I think these pieces still have tons of value. Tkachuk in particular, but even Monahan. They're still young, not too expensive yet, and GMs have much longer memories for production.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think at most we will trade 2 out of Lindy, Tkachuk, Monahan, and Gaudreau. Likely only 1.
If it's one, I think it will be Johnny.

If it's two, I think it will be Monahan and Tkachuk.

Either way, I think these pieces still have tons of value. Tkachuk in particular, but even Monahan. They're still young, not too expensive yet, and GMs have much longer memories for production.

I wonder if Edmonton would do a Puljujarvi swap for Monahan. With RNH probably on the outs as a UFA, they might want a replacement with some term

[dammage79]

The position of strength (depth and talent) is on wing.

You start dealing centers and you best hope you can get one back.

[BagoPucks]

I don't believe the flames reallg want to win a cup. They are more interested in just getting into the playoffs and then who knows sort of model. So 8th seed makes the cut as a success. Purely speculative on my end as how I got to this conclusion. Whatever they do it will be to get into the post season not be a perennial cup contender

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think at most we will trade 2 out of Lindy, Tkachuk, Monahan, and Gaudreau. Likely only 1.
If it's one, I think it will be Johnny.

If it's two, I think it will be Monahan and Tkachuk.

Either way, I think these pieces still have tons of value. Tkachuk in particular, but even Monahan. They're still young, not too expensive yet, and GMs have much longer memories for production.

Last guy we should trade by a country mile.

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by BagoPucks

I don't believe the flames reallg want to win a cup. They are more interested in just getting into the playoffs and then who knows sort of model. So 8th seed makes the cut as a success. Purely speculative on my end as how I got to this conclusion. Whatever they do it will be to get into the post season not be a perennial cup contender

Yeah, who wants all that extra revenue from long playoff runs that being a perennial contender brings. Just spend to the cap and squeak in every year. Smart business plan.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I wonder if Edmonton would do a Puljujarvi swap for Monahan. With RNH probably on the outs as a UFA, they might want a replacement with some term

RNH is possibly out due to cap space. If they can afford Monny, they could afford RNH.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think one of the things that drove a wedge into the team is Tkachuk's contract. Not the dollar amount or that he is the highest paid player, I really don't think players dwell too much on that. Salaries almost always climb. I think it's that Tkachuk's contract put the writing on the wall that he has one foot out the door and isn't invested in the big picture in Calgary. Other players signed long term deals with the intent on making something happen within the "window", but Tkachuk insisted on a contract that allows him to leave as soon as possible.

Pretty sure Matthew Tkachuk wanted to sign a long term deal, but he HAD to sign a short term deal to keep the team together. So if anything, he did Treliving a favour.

https://www.nhl.com/news/matthew-tka...al/c-308097816

"We could've done a longer term, however many years, but this was the deal that was going to keep the number within the [$81.5 million NHL salary cap], and to me, we have such a great group here, so many great guys. I want to win with this group.

Tkachuk that summer had no reason to want to leave. Big year statistically for himself, 50 win season, tight knit group, fans loved him. But I'm sure now, he's thinking that the deal he actually did sign was a possible blessing in disguise. He might able to go elsewhere if the group is broken up, maybe he doesn't want to be part of a retool. Who knows, but regardless, I think your point about his contract being some kind of signal that he wanted out was way off.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Pretty sure Matthew Tkachuk wanted to sign a long term deal, but he HAD to sign a short term deal to keep the team together. So if anything, he did Treliving a favour.

https://www.nhl.com/news/matthew-tka...al/c-308097816

"We could've done a longer term, however many years, but this was the deal that was going to keep the number within the [$81.5 million NHL salary cap], and to me, we have such a great group here, so many great guys. I want to win with this group.

Tkachuk that summer had no reason to want to leave. Big year statistically for himself, 50 win season, tight knit group, fans loved him. But I'm sure now, he's thinking that the deal he actually did sign was a possible blessing in disguise. He might able to go elsewhere if the group is broken up, maybe he doesn't want to be part of a retool. Who knows, but regardless, I think your point about his contract being some kind of signal that he wanted out was way off.

Yeah I remembered that and at the time it sounded like PR. I can’t believe that if they could have got him on a long deal for a reasonable amount vs. short term bridge with a poison pill, they wouldn’t have found a way.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Last guy we should trade by a country mile.

I agree if the team is going for the retool and plan to compete next year (I think this is their plan). If this team is considering going the rebuild route and stripping it down then Lindholm becomes the teams best trade chip. If the plan is to build for the next 3 years then Lindholm’s $4.85M cap hit is being wasted here when it could cash the team in huge on a top prospect or young player. The Flames start to turn the corner and all of a sudden you have 29 going on 30 year old Lindholm wanting a 5-6 year deal at $6M+ for sure.

Mangiapane is another player I would think they should move if the plan is to strip it down.

If the plan is to compete then both of those players are must keep

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Pretty sure Matthew Tkachuk wanted to sign a long term deal, but he HAD to sign a short term deal to keep the team together. So if anything, he did Treliving a favour.

https://www.nhl.com/news/matthew-tka...al/c-308097816

"We could've done a longer term, however many years, but this was the deal that was going to keep the number within the [$81.5 million NHL salary cap], and to me, we have such a great group here, so many great guys. I want to win with this group.

Tkachuk that summer had no reason to want to leave. Big year statistically for himself, 50 win season, tight knit group, fans loved him. But I'm sure now, he's thinking that the deal he actually did sign was a possible blessing in disguise. He might able to go elsewhere if the group is broken up, maybe he doesn't want to be part of a retool. Who knows, but regardless, I think your point about his contract being some kind of signal that he wanted out was way off.

Taking a three year contract that is the highest salary on the team and that guarantees a $9M QO, all after playing a mere 3 years in the league isn’t really taking one for the team IMO. What was he looking for in a longer term? $8 or 9 million? As it is he is the 9th highest paid LW in the league.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Taking a three year contract that is the highest salary on the team and that guarantees a $9M QO, all after playing a mere 3 years in the league isn’t really taking one for the team IMO. What was he looking for in a longer term? $8 or 9 million? As it is he is the 9th highest paid LW in the league.

He probably wanted something between the $8.5x5 that Aho signed and the $10.6x6 that Marner signed. Chucky was coming off 34 goals and 76 points

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah I remembered that and at the time it sounded like PR. I can’t believe that if they could have got him on a long deal for a reasonable amount vs. short term bridge with a poison pill, they wouldn’t have found a way.

Well isn't it kind of the same situation as Mangiapane? Treliving and co clearly love the guy. Heck, they're trying to build a team of Mangiapane's right now as we speak with that Heineman acquisition.

But I remember shaking my head at the 1 year deal in 2019 as well as the 2 year deal last year as I wanted him locked up long term. But you look at what Treliving is trying to do (Markstrom & Tanev signing) and it comes down to depth. He wanted a deep team, deep in all areas as this is their window to win right now. So, if he could get Tkachuk and Mangiapane on good, team friendly deals in the short term with paid later, then he was going to do that. Obviously, things haven't worked out as planned for Tre and co. So I guess it is what it is at this point, he's got a major to mess to clean up now and we'll see how it all goes.