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Old 04-20-2021, 09:32 PM   #5521
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I'm not doubting you.... just curious. Where do you get those numbers from?
Sorry usually I’m better at sourcing Covid stuff.

Ryan Imgrund is a biostatistician who updates rT values daily. Lots of really good information all sourced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/imgrund
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:51 PM   #5522
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The debt-to-GDP ratio is lower than it was under Mulroney. Did that kind of spending end Canadian society as we know it?
No but it required a sharp reduction in government spending in the Chretien years to correct. That was 25 years ago when Canada had a younger population and stronger growth. What would those kinds of cuts look like in the Canada of 10 years from now with a much older population and far more weighty health care and pension commitments?
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:53 PM   #5523
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The debt-to-GDP ratio is lower than it was under Mulroney. Did that kind of spending end Canadian society as we know it?
But would the Mulroney government be so unclear or non-descript about revenue generating initiatives? The government can raise debts but it needs to also increase taxes or allow growth to occur. Was this part the same during the Mulroney government?

I honestly am asking not being facetious because I have a hunch the answer is a very obvious “nope”. Trudeau is setting this country up for inevitable disaster. If a PC or any other government did this they would be getting murdered in the media and online. I just have no idea how this clown gets away with this #### it is baffling.
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:11 PM   #5524
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I understand the incessant need for the left to push the idea that conservatives are bigger spenders then Liberals without even bothering to validate the context behind that spending, so here's some real fact checking that is a little more reputable then pulling a graph made by a redditor called @skepticrod

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...ation-2020.pdf

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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is projected to be the largest accumulator of federal debt per person (5.6 percent) among prime ministers who did not fight a world war or experience an economic downturn during their tenure. Sir Mackenzie Bowell and Sir John Abbott are the only other prime ministers in Canada’s history who have increased federal debt without facing a global conflict or an economic downturn.
Of course, now that he has the pandemic to use as a crutch, he may well beat Borden .

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Old 04-20-2021, 11:15 PM   #5525
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Poilievre today made a claim that Trudeau has racked up more debt ($662B) than all other Canadian PM’s in Canada’s history combined ($630B).

Think about that for a minute. Like, this is a crisis that is being severely underreported.

He then later today made this further claim: “ Canada's debt ratios are higher now than in most of the world’s debt crises of the last 100 years.”

A few days ago he made a claim that our situation is worse than what it was when Greece was having its debt and financial meltdown.

Does anyone care or know what happens to this country and our way of life if interest rates rise? If banks enter into a rapid inflation scenario? How can we have an economy pinned on foreign investment into real estate and fight our number one export / commodity and primary economic generator. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. People should be rightfully freaking out and angry about this. This is insane. The biggest threat to Canada today is Trudeau and Freeland.

I hope many of you aren’t banking on public pensions for retirement. I hope you’re all good with your RRSP’s being essentially absconded. I hope you’re okay with a collapsing quality of life? Like wtf.

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Old 04-20-2021, 11:52 PM   #5526
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Are Pouliveres statements factual?

Greek debt to GDP peaked post financial crisis at 180%.
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:56 PM   #5527
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Does anyone care or know what happens to this country and our way of life if interest rates rise? If banks enter into a rapid inflation scenario? How can we have an economy pinned on foreign investment into real estate and fight our number one export / commodity and primary economic generator. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. People should be rightfully freaking out and angry about this. This is insane. The biggest threat to Canada today is Trudeau and Freeland.
Apparently showing this refutes any argument attempt possibly made about Trudeau.



Apparently 2 wrongs make a right. Mulroney's spending is well known, and we also known that Chretien did rather well in a time of prosperity for Canada.

I have no qualms about the CERB, and emergency programs that were absolutely necessary to survive, and I obviously accepted that this budget (a year behind) would be the biggest deficit since the great depression. I would have certainly not put that against the Trudeau government.

I would have hoped for a massive stimulus package for Canada much like how Harper provided to Canadians which allowed Canadians to weather the great recession the best out of the G7.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_C...20the%20budget.

$12 billion in new infrastructure stimulus funding for roads, bridges, broadband internet access, electronic health records, laboratories and border crossings across the country.
$20 billion in personal income tax relief
$7.8 billion to build quality housing, stimulate construction and enhance energy efficiency.



Harper cut personal income taxes and heavy stimulus package that put Canada out of the recession without significant damage. It spent its way out to create GDP. This is what a recovery budget looks like.

Instead, we get a hodge podge of liberal ideological wet dreams that has little chance of getting passed, and the Liberals know it and can go to the polls using this. Their budget is essentially a political platform instead of a path to recovery.

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Old 04-21-2021, 12:48 AM   #5528
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If the Liberals are as bad and dangerous to Canada as people are suggesting, just how bad does the opposition have to be to be struggling so much against them? And just how much of a threat to Canada is it to have a seemingly unprecedented streak of incompetency running through every political party?

People measure their voting intentions not just by the performance of the party in power, but by the viability of the challengers. We live in a democracy, so safe to say, even if the Liberals are a threat to our future, the even bigger threat is the complete lack of competent alternatives.

Until the Conservatives get with the times and gets back in touch with the average Canadian or the NDP starts acting like a real party again with real values and an actual vision, we are where we are, and we will remain there.
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:44 AM   #5529
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Harper was starting to remove the regulations that kept Canada from dealing with the brunt of the Great Recession. Thankfully, there wasn't much time for Harper's policies to trigger the same level of sub Prime mortgage crisis that the US saw. Nevertheless, in the months leading up to the recession, and while the time bomb was starting to set off alarm bells in the US, Canadians had been buying homes with 40-year, no down payment mortgages at high levels. I think at one point over half of all new mortgages in Alberta were 40-year mortgages before the crisis hit.

Canada got through the other side in better shape because of responsible regulations that had been in place in the years leading up to the crisis. Regulations that Harper had been dismantling.

I put that graph up as another reminder of the track record of our previous governments. We have the benefit of hindsight when looking back at their decisions. Mulroney appeared to have made the right call in signing NAFTA despite tough opposition from the Liberals et al, but his policies failed to address the structural deficit, and saddled the country with piles of debt. Chretien broke the promises he made to the country via the Red Book, but he steered the country into responsible debt management, and enacted policies that gave the country a much more stable economic future.

Harper turned things around by ending debt repayment, cutting revenues, and enacting dangerous deregulation. We had the misfortune of bad timing for those structural changes (or was it good timing to prove why it was the wrong course of action so quickly?).

I don't know how we will see the Trudeau government in the future, but I don't think I'll hate the government for increased spending to deal with the pandemic and climate change. It will take a long time to pay for the worldwide economic disruption, and the high cost of dealing with climate change. From my perspective, the Conservatives have a track record of sticking with ideologies/policies that drive debt accumulation even in the absence of a crisis. As a millennial that will have to deal with the consequences of the climate crisis in the future, I want increased infrastructure spending now that gets us to net zero by 2050. Eventually we will need to pay down our debt, eventually we will have to increase revenues (raise taxes) and cut spending, but now is definitely not the time.
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Old 04-21-2021, 06:39 AM   #5530
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Originally Posted by Firebot View Post
I understand the incessant need for the left to push the idea that conservatives are bigger spenders then Liberals without even bothering to validate the context behind that spending, so here's some real fact checking that is a little more reputable then pulling a graph made by a redditor called @skepticrod

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...ation-2020.pdf

Of course, now that he has the pandemic to use as a crutch, he may well beat Borden .
I'm just here to laugh at "reputable source" being used to reference the Frasier Institute.
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Old 04-21-2021, 06:52 AM   #5531
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Harper was starting to remove the regulations that kept Canada from dealing with the brunt of the Great Recession. Thankfully, there wasn't much time for Harper's policies to trigger the same level of sub Prime mortgage crisis that the US saw. Nevertheless, in the months leading up to the recession, and while the time bomb was starting to set off alarm bells in the US, Canadians had been buying homes with 40-year, no down payment mortgages at high levels. I think at one point over half of all new mortgages in Alberta were 40-year mortgages before the crisis hit.

Canada got through the other side in better shape because of responsible regulations that had been in place in the years leading up to the crisis. Regulations that Harper had been dismantling.

I put that graph up as another reminder of the track record of our previous governments. We have the benefit of hindsight when looking back at their decisions. Mulroney appeared to have made the right call in signing NAFTA despite tough opposition from the Liberals et al, but his policies failed to address the structural deficit, and saddled the country with piles of debt. Chretien broke the promises he made to the country via the Red Book, but he steered the country into responsible debt management, and enacted policies that gave the country a much more stable economic future.

Harper turned things around by ending debt repayment, cutting revenues, and enacting dangerous deregulation. We had the misfortune of bad timing for those structural changes (or was it good timing to prove why it was the wrong course of action so quickly?).

I don't know how we will see the Trudeau government in the future, but I don't think I'll hate the government for increased spending to deal with the pandemic and climate change. It will take a long time to pay for the worldwide economic disruption, and the high cost of dealing with climate change. From my perspective, the Conservatives have a track record of sticking with ideologies/policies that drive debt accumulation even in the absence of a crisis. As a millennial that will have to deal with the consequences of the climate crisis in the future, I want increased infrastructure spending now that gets us to net zero by 2050. Eventually we will need to pay down our debt, eventually we will have to increase revenues (raise taxes) and cut spending, but now is definitely not the time.
The problem with your chart as I pointed out is that it is so disingenuous and misleading. It cuts the data included 4 years short of present and thus 4 years of absolutely insane and extreme spending by Trudeau.

I don’t think this is a partisan issue whatsoever. I don’t care who does it- I really don’t. The one thing your chart does is correctly point out that conservative spending has also been extremely high including under Harper.

All I’m saying is we should be worried the Canadian government is making a bad situation (Harper) worse (Trudeau) and then using the pandemic clearly as a shield for ideological nonsense budgets that don’t focus on the revenue side of the ledger. It’s gross negligence. Not just negligence- borderline criminal. It is ruining the future of the country so that Trudeau can maintain power because people are stupid. Highly unethical. I’m okay with debts and I’m even okay with lots of debts, as long as revenues or plans for revenues come with that spending. But when you decide to go to insane astronomical don’t care anymore debts, and don’t have any revenue plans, that gets me very worried about the future. And I’m amazed more people and media sources aren’t extremely worried about this. To me that response or lack of response- is more of a reflection of this “country” than anything. Which with this budget and future financial outlook, won’t be a country at all.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:30 AM   #5532
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Are Pouliveres statements factual?

Greek debt to GDP peaked post financial crisis at 180%.
You’re right I think that was my mistake. It is higher than Greece today second only to Japan. Here is what he said with an accompanying chart posted from Bloomberg, and if I was a bit more savvy on posting pics I would share it but I’m sure if you follow him on LinkedIn you’d see it. Here was his quote, and a few others over the last week:

“ Our public & private debt/GDP (353%) is higher than Greece, reports Bloomberg.

Stats Canada’s total debt calculations are even more frightening—391% debt/GDP.

If rates rise before debt ratios fall, we will #DEBTONATE”

“ Canada’s total household, corporate & government debt is four times the size of our economy.

We either replace credit cards with paycheques..... or we DEBTONATE”

“ Today Trudeau will lock in permanently high deficits paid with printed $.

Back to the future. When his dad did this in early 80s:

-Inflation: 12%
-Unemployment: 12% (record)
-Interest rates: 18% (record)
-Suicide rate: 14.8/100,000 (record)
-650,000 more people in poverty.”

“ TRUDEAU BUDGET: Government debt smashes through 100% of GDP. The highest ever.”

“ Canada's debt ratios are higher now than in most of the world’s debt crises of the last 100 years.

But that was then, say Liberals, this new hip modern world has repealed old laws of mathematics”

Admittedly hyperbolic and obviously he’s the opposition, but regardless Canadians need to pay attention here, this is a big problem if you’re not going to focus on industry and revenue generating activities.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:44 AM   #5533
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So, I am not knowledgeable about this, and when I read the BNN article, I can't keep focus, but without any context, this graph is concerning to me.

Then a friend provided the following video and... I think it shows it makes sense to have the money printers on? It is just an extremely delicate balance to properly deleverage the economy?

Confused .








I have taken an economic class, so I have the most minimum understanding of how the bank of Canada works, but I found that video quite helpful for anyone with questions. It starts pretty basic but builds.
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:22 AM   #5534
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Why do current events always need to be "the worst" , "the most serious ever" "the end of life as we know it" why can't it just be a little bad, or frustrating, or not as good as it could be.

At some point, it just gets tired, and people stop believing you.
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