Amanda Lindhout-kidnapped Canadian Journalist, freed from captors

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Byrns

I think anyone who ignores warnings and puts themselves at risk of death or kidnapping should be responsible for the costs of the rescue, and any medical treatments. This includes travel to war zones, skiing out of bounds, hiking in avalanche conditions, base jumping, etc.

By bailing this people out we're going against Darwinism, and we don't want to do that do we?

So we just... live in safe little boxes?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by peter12

So we just... live in safe little boxes?

No, just the morons who can't read a travel\risk advisory should live in them. Or if they choose to still go, they can fund their rescue. Why should I have to pay for their stupidity.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by peter12

So we just... live in safe little boxes?

No, but people must acknowledge the risks of their own actions.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Byrns

No, just the morons who can't read a travel\risk advisory should live in them. Or if they choose to still go, they can fund their rescue. Why should I have to pay for their stupidity.

These are pithy words of wisdom.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by habernac

No, but people must acknowledge the risks of their own actions.

Agreed, but I still would want a society that recognizes courage.

[FlamesKickAss]

you all say this now but if it was one of your family members I bet you would have a different tune

[CaptainCrunch]

Instead of paying a ransom, I'm pretty sure that these guys would have sprung her for a cool million

[Slava]

I don't mean to turn this political at all, but I'm ashamed that the government seemingly did very little to help bring her home. Her family was doing the fundraising and trying to push the issue where the government seems to have stepped in at the last minute? (Clearly I don't know all of the points of the case here).

I like to think that when Canadian citizens are kidnapped abroad that there is some support from the government and they would actively campaign for their release. I do agree that the ransom is a bad precedent, but there isn't a doubt if this was a family member of mine (or me!) I would want that ransom paid. I also think its pretty poor taste to criticize a familys actions here in this situation!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't mean to turn this political at all, but I'm ashamed that the government seemingly did very little to help bring her home. Her family was doing the fundraising and trying to push the issue where the government seems to have stepped in at the last minute? (Clearly I don't know all of the points of the case here).

I like to think that when Canadian citizens are kidnapped abroad that there is some support from the government and they would actively campaign for their release. I do agree that the ransom is a bad precedent, but there isn't a doubt if this was a family member of mine (or me!) I would want that ransom paid. I also think its pretty poor taste to criticize a familys actions here in this situation!

We probably don't know much of what went on. Somalia has no government, so there are no official diplomatic routes to explore. Certainly there had to have been an exploration of a military option.

Anything more and I have to go with everyone else on this one, it was her family's duty to pay the ransom.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by peter12

We probably don't know much of what went on. Somalia has no government, so there are no official diplomatic routes to explore. Certainly there had to have been an exploration of a military option.

Anything more and I have to go with everyone else on this one, it was her family's duty to pay the ransom.

I'm not going to say that the government should be in the business of paying ransoms. That is a very bad idea and we probably agree there. I do think that the government could've made this a larger issue in general though...kind of speaks volumes that a lot of people had no idea that this even happened or what the story was here?

I do think that although this might set a bad precedent in general almost anyone would pay to have a member of the nuclear family freed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't mean to turn this political at all, but I'm ashamed that the government seemingly did very little to help bring her home. Her family was doing the fundraising and trying to push the issue where the government seems to have stepped in at the last minute? (Clearly I don't know all of the points of the case here).

I like to think that when Canadian citizens are kidnapped abroad that there is some support from the government and they would actively campaign for their release. I do agree that the ransom is a bad precedent, but there isn't a doubt if this was a family member of mine (or me!) I would want that ransom paid. I also think its pretty poor taste to criticize a familys actions here in this situation!

I think ashamed is a pretty strong word. In the case of this specific kidnapping and most of the pirate attacks that are happening the governments hands are effectively tied.

They can't pay the ransom, it sets a bad policy statement that could realistically endanger other lives. Once you as a government starting paying ransoms then the target list for these gangs shifts and Canadian's probably go to number 1.

There is no government to negotiate with, there's really no military to liase with, and these countries don't have effective police or intelligence agencies that either can or will do anything (Lets face it chances are these police forces are probably getting a cut of any ransom thats paid)

The government can't negotiate directly with the kidnappers, again that both gives them credibility and emboldens them.

You can't intervene militarily (ie sending in JTF2) to pull a rescue.

At some point if you as a citizen ignore travel warnings and you get snatched you've screwed yourself over cause your own government is fairly powerless.

This isn't even a party issue, the Liberal's would react the same way as the conservatives did.

Personally I was only have joking with the above post. Hire a mercenary group that will go in and rescue the hostage while killing the hostage takers.

the Russian's set an example in this about 20 years ago in the middle east when when of their minor diplomats was kidnapped and the Russian's snatched up the kidnappers family and started sending body parts to the Kidnappers until the hostage was released.

[VladtheImpaler]

Exactly, what can the Canadian government do here? Pay Israel or US for the use of their special forces and logistics?????

[Slava]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Exactly, what can the Canadian government do here? Pay Israel or US for the use of their special forces and logistics?????

I can't give you a solid answer on that one. I'm just a citizen....its my job to complain about whichever route they pursue and their job to figure out the best way to do these things!

[Cowperson]

Amusingly, I'm told by my sister today I apparently have some sort of distant relationship with Amanda . . . . cousin of a wife of a nephew.

I'd like to think her father is going to slap her bottom for forcing him to re-mortgage the house . . . . after giving her a big hug of course.

I think if you're going to a place like that you should have the foresight to set up your own kidnap ransom fund before you leave.

Cowperson

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by peter12

Agreed, but I still would want a society that recognizes courage.

In your world those guys who jumped into the tiger cage at the zoo should be given the key to the city?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Amusingly, I'm told by my sister today I apparently have some sort of distant relationship with Amanda . . . . cousin of a wife of a nephew.

I'd like to think her father is going to slap her bottom for forcing him to re-mortgage the house . . . . after giving her a big hug of course.

I think if you're going to a place like that you should have the foresight to set up your own kidnap ransom fund before you leave.

Cowperson

Probably fata, but I lol whenever I see you sign your name in a post. It reminds me of how my mom will sign her name in a text message or how my mother in law will sign her name when posting something on facebook.

After googling some pics of this reporter I have to say she is quite hot. Is it true she is pregnant via gangrape? That's what it said on this site.

Honestly, it was really dumb of her to go to Somalia, but if it was my daughter there I would have paid the ransom as well. You can't expect the gov't to protect you from your own naivety/stupidity.

[Jetsfan]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

you all say this now but if it was one of your family members I bet you would have a different tune

If one of my family members were stupid enough to go to a country like Somolia and ignore the travel warnings of the Canadian government then they're out of luck and they can fend for themselves.

Thats the problem with Western civilization, no one wants to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make. Instead, responsible people like myself are forced, through taxation, to cover for these people.

To me, Amanda Lindhout is no different than the idiot who got his arm chewed off by the tiger at the Calgary Zoo. I have never been bitten by a tiger nor taken hostage because I don't jump into tiger cages and I don't take vacations in Somolia!

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Jetsfan

If one of my family members were stupid enough to go to a country like Somolia and ignore the travel warnings of the Canadian government then they're out of luck and they can fend for themselves.

Easy to say from the cheap seats. The gov't has no business paying ransoms for all the reasons listed here - no argument whatsoever. But we're all human - if it was a member of any of our families I have a hard time thinking the thought wouldn't at least cross your mind at some point of how best to end it quickly and painlessly (ie. a ransom). Not sure we'd be quite so cold if the situation were staring us in the face.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by jar_e

I doubt it was the federal government that paid up but if it was...

I'm not gonna lie, I'm kinda irked by it. Lindhout, from what I read, is an amazing journalist and has done a lot of work in the middle east. But when you goto a country on your own free will, such like Somalia where all the travel advisories from every country is saying don't go there and the threat to westerners is high to get kidnapped, and than actually get kidnapped, don't start blaming the government for not paying a few million to have you released. I'm pretty sure a few months ago the kidnappers released a tape with what is believed to have been Lindhout begging the government for help.

I'm not trying to make light of the situation, I'm sure she has gone through some horrible, horrible things...but ultimately, she set herself up for this situation and given the turmoil in that country and the fact she knew about it (the reason she was working there), she should have fully accepted the risks and been well aware that the Canadian government was not going to help financially.

You're right, when she had a gun to her head or other threats against her, she should have gone on tape and said, "whatever you do, make sure that the Canadian taxpayer doesn't foot the bill for my release."
Do you seriously believe that anything you see on a hostage tape isn't done through manipulation and coercion? If I'm taken hostage and threatened and beaten unless I plead with my government to intervene, then I'm going to do it. Would I actually expect the government to intervene or think that they should? No, but if making that tape is what's going to keep me alive for a few more weeks or lessen the beatings, I'll do it.
I hate to see anyone rewarded for kidnapping, but in this situation where diplomatic or tactical operations were not feasible, I respect the right of the family to make this happen. It seems that they did the right thing, waiting as long as possible for other things to develop rather than giving in quickly.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Jetsfan

If one of my family members were stupid enough to go to a country like Somolia and ignore the travel warnings of the Canadian government then they're out of luck and they can fend for themselves.

Thats the problem with Western civilization, no one wants to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make. Instead, responsible people like myself are forced, through taxation, to cover for these people.

I don't know if you're interested, but I heard about a country somewhere in Africa where you can go and you won't have to pay taxes... I sincerely hope you try it out.

I don't take vacations in Somolia!

Dang.

Seriously though, she is a freelance journalist, so she wasn't in Somalia on vacation. I can't imagine casually concluding that a member of my own family should die at the hands of kidnappers, because they took a calculated risk, especially when that risk is understandable given the nature of her career.

I think Cowperson made a really good point that she should have arranged insurance before travelling there. Hell, I get travel insurance when I go to G7 countries.

Anyways, I'm happy to hear that she's back in Canada and safe. Best wishes to her in recovering from what was surely a terrifying ordeal.