I don't think size is even an issue. Is Pettersson any more fragile or smaller than Gretzky when he came up? Have you seen how skinny Gretzky was when he first started with the Oilers?
This never happened to Gretzky because you knew you were going to have to answer for it. It was black and white. You give Gretzky an extra push after a check, well here's McSorley or Brown or Semenko to welcome Kent Nilson or Hakan Loob or even Tim Hunter.
Now it's grey because of the instigator, because of the elimination of enforcers. Guys will give the extra shot, the extra unnecessary shot because they think "nothing will probably come of it, i'm protected by the rules".
I'm not saying Gretzky never got targeted, of course he did, but it was all just face washes and whacks and slashes and mean words, it was never over the line, because you knew what happened if crossed it. The line is crossed regularly now in today's NHL because the grey has replaced the black and white.
It didn't happen to Gretzky because he wasn't usually in that position (and I don't think he was ever as small as Petterson). If you think there wasn't dirty play or cheap shots, you are wrong.
This is certainly a polarizing discussion. I would urge all readers to go to Daniel Carcilo's twitter account and see what's going on there and you might come back with a different opinion.
Nothing makes me laugh more than the "Cheap shots didn't happen in the 80s and 90s because you had tough guys on the ice and players respected each other" crowd.
Go back and watch games and highlights from the 80's and 90s and the elbows, headshots, hits from behind, stick work, etc will make you cringe.
It's honestly the most laughable case of people not actually remembering what occurred in the past, and wanting to remember the game in a certain way to help prove a point.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 10-16-2018 at 02:11 PM.
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It's probably related to using Firefox, if a post contains any special characters (i.e. unicode quotes “” instead of "") then Firefox won't work when quoting a post. It's something with the forum software and Firefox.
Often happens when content is copy/pasted from other sources which would commonly use those kinds of quotes (or apostrophes, or hyphens etc)
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
This is certainly a polarizing discussion. I would urge all readers to go to Daniel Carcilo's twitter account and see what's going on there and you might come back with a different opinion.
I don't disagree with Carcillo's point about the NHL needing to do a better job of protecting players but IMO the guy is still a P.O.S who doesn't give a care about anybody but himself.
He was a terribly dirty player on the ice, he was a rat, and layed out a ton of dirty hits (Suspended 12 times in 9 NHL seasons).
Now he is playing this holier than thou card since he wants to get money from the NHL out of a lawsuit and acts like he actually has other players best interests at heart.
The guy only cares in raising the profile of his case in order to get a better settlement from the NHL for himself, and is only fooling himself if thinks people actually believe that players in his generation didn't know the impacts concussions had long term when he was a player.
He's only 33 years old, and concerns around concussions and post-concussion syndrome have been around in the public knowledge for at least 15 years now. For him to act like he didn't know about the impact from concussions and how it impacted players when he was running around taking cheap shots on his fellow players is B.S.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 10-16-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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"He's only 33 years old, and concerns around concussions and post-concussion syndrome have been around in the public knowledge for at least 15 years now. For him to act like he didn't know about the impact from concussions and how it impacted players when he was running around taking cheap shots on his fellow players is B.S."
Much of what you say is true Matt, however, if the NHL apparently isn't yet aware of the impact as their actions (or lack-there-of) speak, then I do think the players might not have been as aware as they needed to be as well. Also, please consider that there isn't much recourse even today for a player to stay out of the game and get paid (even with insurance) if they feel they are concussed but that assessment conflicts with the teams physicians. As such, I believe a lot of players either won't disclose a concussion (even if minor), rush to get back to service, or don't consider the effect of multiple incidents. The best way to address that is to eliminate the root causes.
I don't disagree with Carcillo's point about the NHL needing to do a better job of protecting players but IMO the guy is still a P.O.S who doesn't give a care about anybody but himself.
He was a terribly dirty player on the ice, he was a rat, and layed out a ton of dirty hits (Suspended 12 times in 9 NHL seasons).
Now he is playing this holier than thou card since he wants to get money from the NHL out of a lawsuit and acts like he actually has other players best interests at heart.
Yeah, I don't think this is entirely fair. Who's to say what Carcillo cares about, or how little or how much his post-playing experience has changed him and his perspective? Unless you know the guy this is pretty inflammatory.
Quote:
The guy only cares in raising the profile of his case in order to get a better settlement from the NHL for himself, and is only fooling himself if thinks people actually believe that players in his generation didn't know the impacts concussions had long term when he was a player.
He's only 33 years old, and concerns around concussions and post-concussion syndrome have been around in the public knowledge for at least 15 years now. For him to act like he didn't know about the impact from concussions and how it impacted players when he was running around taking cheap shots on his fellow players is B.S.
But how readily available and public was this information? Dr. Bennett Omalu published his work on chronic traumatic encephalopathy in Neurosurgery in 2005, and at that time his research was restricted just to head trauma experienced by NFL players. I don't know about you, but I as an educated hockey enthusiast sure do not have my finger on the pulse of current discussions in neurology and brain science. How many NHL players do you believe have made the effort to stay up to date with this sort of scientific research?
I am a fan who follows the League pretty closely, and the dangers of chronic head trauma, fighting and checking in the NHL did not register very strongly in my own orbit until the publication of John Branch's series of NYT articles on the life of Derek Boogard—who died in Summer 2011—and his book Boy on Ice published in 2014. By my recollection this was the first time brain trauma and hockey had entered conversations in popular media.
So, no. I tend to think that the dangers of CTE were not common knowledge—certainly not among the fraternity of NHL players—as early as 2003. The NFL did not even acknowledge the link between football and CTE until 2009, which was long before this discussion had even begun in NHL circles.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
It didn't happen to Gretzky because he wasn't usually in that position (and I don't think he was ever as small as Petterson). If you think there wasn't dirty play or cheap shots, you are wrong.
So you linked to Luke Richardson (an enforcer) getting slashed in the head by Dino Ciccarelli - where is the star player?
Roenick taking a legal hit that was high and within the rules at the time oh and it's in the 90's
Bossy taking a borderline dirty hit that was likely acceptable back then but now would be suspendable.
Gretzky taking a clean and legal at the time and probably now hockey hit.
How do they have any relevance to what I said? Do you have a link to Tim Hunter body slamming Gretzky to the ice and causing a concussion? Or Jim Peplinski with a flying elbow on Gretzky?
Hockey is a physical sport, I never said it wasn't. I never said it wasn't dirty in the 80's. Read what I wrote.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
So you linked to Luke Richardson (an enforcer) getting slashed in the head by Dino Ciccarelli - where is the star player?
Roenick taking a legal hit that was high and within the rules at the time oh and it's in the 90's
Bossy taking a borderline dirty hit that was likely acceptable back then but now would be suspendable.
Gretzky taking a clean and legal at the time and probably now hockey hit.
How do they have any relevance to what I said? Do you have a link to Tim Hunter body slamming Gretzky to the ice and causing a concussion? Or Jim Peplinski with a flying elbow on Gretzky?
Hockey is a physical sport, I never said it wasn't. I never said it wasn't dirty in the 80's. Read what I wrote.
You wrote that "it was all just face washes and whacks and slashes and mean words, it was never over the line, because you knew what happened if crossed it," which is utter bollocks. Hockey is not any more dirty or dangerous now than it has ever been because of the removal of on-ice enforcers. This is a myth.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Yeah, I don't think this is entirely fair. Who's to say what Carcillo cares about, or how little or how much his post-playing experience has changed him and his perspective? Unless you know the guy this is pretty inflammatory.
But how readily available and public was this information? Dr. Bennett Omalu published his work on chronic traumatic encephalopathy in Neurosurgery in 2005, and at that time his research was restricted just to head trauma experienced by NFL players. I don't know about you, but I as an educated hockey enthusiast sure do not have my finger on the pulse of current discussions in neurology and brain science. How many NHL players do you believe have made the effort to stay up to date with this sort of scientific research?
I am a fan who follows the League pretty closely, and the dangers of chronic head trauma, fighting and checking in the NHL did not register very strongly in my own orbit until the publication of John Branch's series of NYT articles on the life of Derek Boogard—who died in Summer 2011—and his book Boy on Ice published in 2014. By my recollection this was the first time brain trauma and hockey had entered conversations in popular media.
So, no. I tend to think that the dangers of CTE were not common knowledge—certainly not among the fraternity of NHL players—as early as 2003. The NFL did not even acknowledge the link between football and CTE until 2009, which was long before this discussion had even begun in NHL circles.
15 years was probably a bit far back in relation to hockey (boxing and wrestling were probably the two sports where it has started to be mentioned at that time), but doesn’t change my point on Carcillo.
The guy was making brutal, and dirty hits on players until his last days as a player in 2015 - much after the effects of CTE were made public and post-Boogards death.
If he actually cared he should have been advocating at that time when he was still playing, instead of continuing to be a very dirty player and the cause of a lot of serious injuries and concussions himself.
It was only once he was added to the lawsuit against the NHL earlier this year that he became this big advocate for CTE and constantly calling out the NHL for their practices.
He had been out of hockey for 2 1/2 years and nothing was said...then he’s added to the lawsuit March 23rd, creates a twitter account the next day on March 24th, and then suddenly this became this very serious and important topic to him.
I actually think what he’s saying is very valid, and don’t disagree with any of his points (except the fact that he had no idea about the impacts during his playing career) but question the actual motives behind what he’s doing except trying to sway public perception to his own cause in case of the lawsuit.
I don't see anything wrong with that hit. however you should learn after getting rocked. Kid comes across the Blueline with his head down. This isnt non contact hockey. If one wants to play with their head down whilst trying to dangle everyone, don't play full contact hockey.
You have to be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially when you have the puck.
Last edited by soulchoice; 10-16-2018 at 07:55 PM.
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