2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So you are agreeing that players have rebounded and Neal has made it past the first round? Or ignoring that?

He may not rebound. But others have.

Name a player that’s rebounded from a season like Neal just had in his 30’s.


I’ll wait patiently

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by neo45

Name a player that’s rebounded from a season like Neal just had in his 30’s.


I’ll wait patiently

Dustin Brown, Eric Staal

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Dustin Brown, Eric Staal

Steal isn’t remotely comparable (.47 ppg was his worst season)

Brown is a surprising and strange case of a rebound but it took him 4 full seasons to do it, so if that’s the best we can hope for with Neal a buyout is still better.

Neal isn’t just going to “get going” for next season

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by neo45

Steal isn’t remotely comparable (.47 ppg was his worst season)

Brown is a surprising and strange case of a rebound but it took him 4 full seasons to do it, so if that’s the best we can hope for with Neal a buyout is still better.

Neal isn’t just going to “get going” for next season

Neal was signed to score 20 and was then stuck with Janko and Bennett. I don't know how surprising it is that he only scored 7. But to say that there's no way he can rebound is short sighted. Another buyout is not realistic, looks bad for the Flames, and wastes even more cap. Right now the best course of action is to old tight and either trade him if at all possible, or use him next year and see if he can turn things around.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by neo45

Steal isn’t remotely comparable (.47 ppg was his worst season)

Brown is a surprising and strange case of a rebound but it took him 4 full seasons to do it, so if that’s the best we can hope for with Neal a buyout is still better.

Neal isn’t just going to “get going” for next season

So Eric Staal going from 39pts to 76pts in 2 years is not a 30 something player bouncing back?

Neal switched teams 3 years in a row playing deep in the playoffs the 3 years before he came to the Flames. A long summer could be what he needs to bounce back and reset. It is unlikely but not impossible citing a couple of examples of players people thought were done that were able to bounce back.

[TheScorpion]

The cap is going up substantially and once Tkachuk is locked in, the majority of the Flames' core will be accounted for at a fixed cost.

Buying out Neal has virtually no revelatory monetary benefit and it is difficult to imagine a future where his production reaches lower levels than those of 2018-19.

[Jiggy_12]

Owen Nolan rebounded pretty good when he left Calgary for Minnesota. I believe he was 36. He wasn't awful here, but his numbers shot up pretty big for his age 36 season with the Wild.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The cap is going up substantially and once Tkachuk is locked in, the majority of the Flames' core will be accounted for at a fixed cost.

Buying out Neal has virtually no revelatory monetary benefit and it is difficult to imagine a future where his production reaches lower levels than those of 2018-19.

^^^This^^^

Neal came in as a 40 point player that was expected to score 20, he went 7g/19p. The bounce back isn't that far to add 21 points, especially if he can play with Lindholm on the second line (if that's a possibility).

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by neo45

Name a player that’s rebounded from a season like Neal just had in his 30’s.


I’ll wait patiently

Let’s not forget Milan Lucic

[neo45]

If the answer to anything is promoting Neal, then it’s a stupid question

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So Eric Staal going from 39pts to 76pts in 2 years is not a 30 something player bouncing back?

Neal switched teams 3 years in a row playing deep in the playoffs the 3 years before he came to the Flames. A long summer could be what he needs to bounce back and reset. It is unlikely but not impossible citing a couple of examples of players people thought were done that were able to bounce back.

Didn’t say players don’t have bounce back seasons

I said they don’t bounce back when they are as bad as Neal was and they just don’t. Staal at his worst was not the worst offensive AND defensive player on his team like Neal was.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Neal was signed to score 20 and was then stuck with Janko and Bennett. I don't know how surprising it is that he only scored 7. But to say that there's no way he can rebound is short sighted. Another buyout is not realistic, looks bad for the Flames, and wastes even more cap. Right now the best course of action is to old tight and either trade him if at all possible, or use him next year and see if he can turn things around.

I don’t have any issue with hoping for a bounce back year. His offence is a black hole which really sucks but it’s his defence that is truly atrocious and will kill any chance of winning another playoff series if he takes a regular shift in it.

Pretty hard not to point directly at him in game 4 against the Avs.

[Flamenspiel]

Zach Parise, 24 to 62 points and he is 34.

Of course when you compare performances nothing will be exactly the same. These are "comparables" in the same neighbourhood. Certainly the evidence is there that older players can bounce back, even Dennis Wideman had a bounce back season

[jayswin]

The problem with Neal is yes we could make him more productive, but it would be at the cost of someone else.

Could he get his 20 goals playing with Monahan and Gaudreau? Despite his struggles playing with them spot duty for quick shifts after penalties, the answer is still likely yes. But it would be at the expense of the top line scoring less than it did with Lindolm AND being worse defensively.

Could he get his 20 goals playing with Tkachuk and Backlund? Possibly, but again it comes at a cost. They're a defensive line that shuts down other top lines while putting up points. Neal can't check other top lines.

So the options for Brad Treliving becomes

a) Acquire a playmaking centre or forward specifically for the third line to help utilize James Neal

b) Acquire a number 1 or 2 centre pushing everyone down, with Backlund going to Neal's line

c) understand that Neal can likely no longer take up a spot on our roster if he goes out with mediocre third liners who can't create, when he can't do anything but snipe good feeds.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by neo45

Steal isn’t remotely comparable (.47 ppg was his worst season)

Brown is a surprising and strange case of a rebound but it took him 4 full seasons to do it, so if that’s the best we can hope for with Neal a buyout is still better.

Neal isn’t just going to “get going” for next season

So you asked for examples, they were provided and then you basically said not applicable because those players aren't Neal..........

I don't have high faith in Neal, but the likely hood that Neal just completely fell off a cliff this year and what we got this year from him is the new norm is simply not the most likely scenario. The thought around here that if people are over 30, they are write offs is painful. I doubt Neal will be as good as the player he was prior to Calgary next year, but it will be more surprising if he's as bad as he was this year again. Nothing scientific or otherwise that should support someone who is under 35 years of age falling off physically that badly in less than a year.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

So you asked for examples, they were provided and then you basically said not applicable because those players aren't Neal..........

I don't have high faith in Neal, but the likely hood that Neal just completely fell off a cliff this year and what we got this year from him is the new norm is simply not the most likely scenario. The thought around here that if people are over 30, they are write offs is painful. I doubt Neal will be as good as the player he was prior to Calgary next year, but it will be more surprising if he's as bad as he was this year again. Nothing scientific or otherwise that should support someone who is under 35 years of age falling off physically that badly in less than a year.

I don't know man, with each passing year the idea that 30+ players suddenly fall off a cliff one year and never return is more and more real. The game is getting so much faster year to year.

Hudler, Glencross and many many others go from looking at 4-5 year retirement contracts early one year to PTO offers in the off season.

[Toonage]

This all feels like the Brouwer situation again.

He couldn't possibly be worse in year 2 could he?

Yes. Yes he could.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Toonage

This all feels like the Brouwer situation again.

He couldn't possibly be worse in year 2 could he?

Yes. Yes he could.

Except Neal actually had a worse year than either of Brouwer's two years. He was that bad. It's really hard to get worse than not even putting up 20 points.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Except Neal actually had a worse year than either of Brouwer's two years. He was that bad. It's really hard to get worse than not even putting up 20 points.

Actually when you take games played into account Neal’s year was better than Brouwer’s second year (0.301ppg - 0.289ppg). Brouwer’s first year, however, was better (0.337ppg).

But it’s like comparing cow poo to horse crap. At the end of the day, they both stink.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Zach Parise, 24 to 62 points and he is 34.

Of course when you compare performances nothing will be exactly the same. These are "comparables" in the same neighbourhood. Certainly the evidence is there that older players can bounce back, even Dennis Wideman had a bounce back season

Parise's 24 points came in half a year, you conveniently forgot to mention.

He had 3 PP points last year, 16 this year.

The difference between years can be summed up in (1) missing half the year, and (2) PP usage.