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Old 06-17-2021, 05:41 PM   #7001
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13 is a bakers dozen and a bakers dozen is really more than what you ordered when you order a dozen. We're good!
As I said, I donít think it makes a difference at all.
I just interested to see how this plays out.
Will JK admit to moving the goal posts, even if itís negligible, or will he just do bad math.
I suspect itíll be the latter.
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:48 PM   #7002
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In this case anyone who criticizes Jason Kenny for “breaking” the rules is an idiot or has to go back to Christmas and apologize for all the complaints they made about the Hawaii vacations as they were not against any rules.

Or we can have some common sense about why 2 weeks post 70% was chosen and the significance of a few thousand doses being second doses instead of first doses is.

But if we want to get pedantic we are at 70% of eligible having 1st doses we are aren’t at 70.0% of eligible people having 1st doses. The criteria was only to 2 significant figures not 3. It’s also reasonable to only look at teo significant figures as the error rate in data collection is likely greater than .1%. So if you are going to state that 69.9 is not good but 70.0 is good then you are actually trying to distinguish between two identical numbers.

However what will likely happen is those who felt opening at 70% is too soon will say Kenny is cheating by opening at 69.9% when their real complaint has nothing to do with the .1% and is instead with the 2nd dose % or the 30% without 1st doses.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t go ahead. I agree that there is no functional difference between the 2 numbers.
What I’m saying is that instead of just coming out and saying “Good enough” or as we both agree “69.9 is functionally the same as 70” he is more likely to use the June 17 + 14 = Canada day.

I’m all for using the logic that 69.9 = 70 and is a reasonable way to move forward.
I’m even okay with just saying, for opening up functionally 13 days is close enough.

What I suspect he will do is say “we hit 70 %” and 14 days after that is July 1, so we aren’t bending any rules or rounding anything. Which goes to how he has handled everything, he can’t admit he is ever wrong, or that he has changed tack on anything.

Just be honest about something for once and come to the press conference tomorrow and say “It’s close enough”
If he does that I’ll have the slightest ammout of respect for how he has handled at least one press conference/announcement over the last few months.

I’m not so concerned about what he does tomorrow (I hope we go ahead with opening), I’m more concerned with how he will message it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:54 PM   #7003
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Anyone else like me who's a "first shot in May" flipping through this thread and jelly of the other people who's received their second shot?
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:55 PM   #7004
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I think saying we hit 70% yesterday is a factually true statement, we don’t have accurate enough data to distinguish between 69.9 and 70.0%

An interesting question is where does the population of eligible Albertans come from?

Is it Active Alberta health numbers?
Is it the Statscan estimates by Month Quarter or Year?
Is it an estimate of actual people currently in the province?
Do they count people who died since being vaccinated? There is probably about 1000 of them.
How many people are vaccinated out of province and didn’t report.

Each of these measures has a greater margin of error then .1% so adding artificial specificity to the number is not correct.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:08 PM   #7005
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For those who had AZ as their first shot - NACI released today their guidance that those who received AZ first, should get an mRNA vaccine as their second shot.

Quote:
NACI said Thursday that AstraZeneca recipients should instead receive a second dose of an mRNA vaccine, like the ones offered by Pfizer and Moderna.

"An mRNA vaccine is now preferred as the second dose for individuals who received a first dose of the AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD vaccine, based on emerging evidence of a potentially better immune response from this mixed vaccine schedule," NACI said in a statement released today.
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Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, said that, based on early data, a mix-and-match regimen has "performed very well and seems to have a superior response" as it produces both a strong antibody and cellular response.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ast...stop-1.6069838
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:33 PM   #7006
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For those who had AZ as their first shot - NACI released today their guidance that those who received AZ first, should get an mRNA vaccine as their second shot.
Well that's good, since that's what I plan to do tomorrow!

I guess that means we really have no use for AZ at all anymore, except for those who can't get an mRNA vaccine for some reason.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:33 PM   #7007
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Anyone else like me who's a "first shot in May" flipping through this thread and jelly of the other people who's received their second shot?
A couple family members who got the first dose early may were on a Rexall waiting list and got a link to book for next week today. Betting things open up sooner than later.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:57 PM   #7008
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My concern is travel. If I have the cocktail am I considered fully vaccinated to travel? I won't lie. I will have 2 of every vaccine to get out of this country for awhile.
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:05 PM   #7009
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Anyone else like me who's a "first shot in May" flipping through this thread and jelly of the other people who's received their second shot?
June here…

I can make it though, things look so good I’m loving all the updates!!!

Beat it Covid!
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:07 PM   #7010
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I wonder what may be driving this flip flop , flip flop with AZ in Canada for first and second doses? The messaging and the headlines are a little puzzling.

I have zero doubt that some of the studies and the clinical trails are showing that an AZ/Pfizer combo may be effective, perhaps even more effective in terms of producing antibodies. I guess a question that may needs to asked is, how effective is needed where the messaging may be more damaging to the vaccine movement and the global community??

For all indication's the AZ is very very effective and does an excellent job, as do all the vaccines. They prevent severe disease, hospitalization and for the most part, turn COVID into a very very minor illness. What more are we looking for and expecting? I totally understand the risk and the concerns with VITT but it's not like the other vaccines are running at 100% zero concerns either.

The headlines that may be happening in a lot of the developing world are going to look like the rich countries don't want AZ, and than we are going to donate them our supplies. Millions and millions of lives and long term health are in jeopardy.

I don't know if we are doing ourselves any long term favors with this poor messaging for the collective world. If there are legit, long term safety and efficacy concerns with this vaccine that are overwhelming than that needs to be conveyed. We can't just look after ourselves with the good stuff, vaccinate our entire population, even extremely low risk population and than send the trash to the poor countries. There are moral considerations.

Vaccinating children who have such a small risk profile for this illness, generally speaking, while billions of people, elderly, healthcare workers and at risk populations wait.

It's kind of puzzling to me
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:12 PM   #7011
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My concern is travel. If I have the cocktail am I considered fully vaccinated to travel? I won't lie. I will have 2 of every vaccine to get out of this country for awhile.
The first Broadway show is opening up soon and they're only allowing entry to people who are fully vaccinated with an FDA-approved vaccine. The problem is, AstraZeneca isn't FDA-approved (mostly because the US didn't need it by the time it was ready), so anyone with the AZ shot isn't allowed to buy those tickets.

I suspect we'll see some sort of agreement soon between the US, Canada, UK, and Europe to accept anyone vaccinated with one of the approved vaccines in any of those nations in order to get the borders open.

I hope it was a topic of discussion at the G7 meetings this week.
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:19 PM   #7012
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Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
I wonder what may be driving this flip flop , flip flop with AZ in Canada for first and second doses? The messaging and the headlines are a little puzzling.

I have zero doubt that some of the studies and the clinical trails are showing that an AZ/Pfizer combo may be effective, perhaps even more effective in terms of producing antibodies. I guess a question that may needs to asked is, how effective is needed where the messaging may be more damaging to the vaccine movement and the global community??

For all indication's the AZ is very very effective and does an excellent job, as do all the vaccines. They prevent severe disease, hospitalization and for the most part, turn COVID into a very very minor illness. What more are we looking for and expecting? I totally understand the risk and the concerns with VITT but it's not like the other vaccines are running at 100% zero concerns either.

The headlines that may be happening in a lot of the developing world are going to look like the rich countries don't want AZ, and than we are going to donate them our supplies. Millions and millions of lives and long term health are in jeopardy.

I don't know if we are doing ourselves any long term favors with this poor messaging for the collective world. If there are legit, long term safety and efficacy concerns with this vaccine that are overwhelming than that needs to be conveyed. We can't just look after ourselves with the good stuff, vaccinate our entire population, even extremely low risk population and than send the trash to the poor countries. There are moral considerations.

Vaccinating children who have such a small risk profile for this illness, generally speaking, while billions of people, elderly, healthcare workers and at risk populations wait.

It's kind of puzzling to me
Quote:
NACI concluded that the advantages of safe, highly efficacious mRNA COVID-19 vaccines
outweigh any possible disadvantages for eligible populations. Therefore, NACI made a strong
recommendation for the preferential use of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in all authorized age
groups. NACI cautions that there is uncertainty in the evidence of advantages and disadvantages
of the use of viral vector COVID-19 vaccines for eligible populations in Canada due to the risk of
a rare but serious adverse event (Vaccine Induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia, VITT); the
availability of other safe, highly efficacious mRNA COVID-19 vaccines; as well as some evidence
of lower protection against asymptomatic transmission and the B.1.351 (Beta) and B.1.617.2
(Delta) VOC with the AstraZeneca vaccine. Therefore, NACI made a discretionary
recommendation on the use of viral vector COVID-19 vaccines.
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...accines-en.pdf

TLDR version is that the 2 authorized mRNA vaccines are more abundant in Canada and are pretty much better in every way than the AstraZeneca vaccine.
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:25 PM   #7013
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https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...accines-en.pdf

TLDR version is that the 2 authorized mRNA vaccines are more abundant in Canada and are pretty much better in every way than the AstraZeneca vaccine.
In English this means hurry up and wait?
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:50 PM   #7014
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My concern is travel. If I have the cocktail am I considered fully vaccinated to travel? I won't lie. I will have 2 of every vaccine to get out of this country for awhile.
When I got my Pfizer shot after my AZ shot, the nurse at the Telus convention center marked it as 2 of 2 as Pfizer on the chart. So on record I am considered fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

They may be directed to mark it as pfizer fully vaccinated on record, likely for the scenario that mixed vaccines could be discriminated against.
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:49 AM   #7015
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My hopes are they approve the vaccines for school kids before next fall, this will truly go away if it's safe for 5 and up.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:00 AM   #7016
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got my second AZ shot today. So far no system crashes after the patch.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:06 AM   #7017
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Anyone else like me who's a "first shot in May" flipping through this thread and jelly of the other people who's received their second shot?
I am hoping fearless leader opens it up for us May people when he gloats about the best summer ever and that we have hit our target to open things up 69.9%

For those that are allowed to book right now, are there a lot of appointments out there?
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:15 AM   #7018
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I am hoping fearless leader opens it up for us May people when he gloats about the best summer ever and that we have hit our target to open things up 69.9%

For those that are allowed to book right now, are there a lot of appointments out there?
When I booked as soon as April opened, I waited in a long "line" online, but had tons of choice for appointment time. I ended up having to re-schedule and found things within a couple days tight, but within a week, lots of availability.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:22 AM   #7019
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got my second AZ shot today. So far no system crashes after the patch.
I've seen a couple people on here get AZ twice. I did AZ and then Pfizer. What made you go double AZ? Everything I've read says AZ and then Pfizer provides better immunity.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:26 AM   #7020
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I've seen a couple people on here get AZ twice. I did AZ and then Pfizer. What made you go double AZ? Everything I've read says AZ and then Pfizer provides better immunity.
Austria doesn't mix vaccines so far, so it wasn't an option. I'd have prefered it.
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