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Old 09-11-2019, 09:16 PM   #161
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I don't know what people really expected this off-season. Flames were 1st in the west, and 2nd overall in the NHL. Sure, they got bounced by Colorado, but Colorado was a lot more dangerous than people thought, especially entering the playoffs on that hot streak.


Flames did well this off-season. They unloaded the one and only forward who was legitimately bad (and even more importantly, made his linemates bad). They also got rid of Smith who had some awful stretches, but was amazing in the playoffs.


I love how they kept their first and drafted Pelletier - kid is going to be a productive player in the NHL. They didn't give up any notable prospects in an effort to try and win now - Dube, Kylington, Pettersen and Valimaki are still their property and will become key cogs in the years to come.


They are looking like they may come back with essentially the same team as last year, but with better depth, more experience, absolutely no dead-weight (Lucic is overpaid, but he will be useful at least!), and with a chance of better goaltending (Smith was too erratic for most of the season, and there was no excuse for him finishing with that GAA considering the team he had in front of him).


Calgary was a significant team. I do think that Calgary got 'lucky' last year in terms of injuries, and that's why you are seeing Stone re-signed, and I would be shocked if Brodie was moved now. Yelesin was an astute signing, but Hamonic always gets injured every season it seems, so you need that depth.


What did the Flames really lack last year? Better goaltending. That was probably the biggest hole on the team. Rittich should be getting better, and I would bet on Talbot rebounding more than I think Smith would be capable of at his age. Flames lacked toughness - in comes Lucic at the expense of pure dead weight on the team, and Treliving brought guys who are hard to play against on PTOs - I bet one will get signed.



I think this Stone shenanigans was a smart move by Treliving. Stone barely played at all last season, and he got displaced by a rookie defencemen. He may have had some PTOs handed his way, but maybe teams shied away from him due to those blood clots. Treliving then circles back and signs a guy who can legitimately play top 4 and not look bad doing it at all. You never know with injuries, and I think it was a smart move bringing Stone back.


However, this does not make Brodie expendable. I don't even think that Treliving looks at Brodie as an expendable piece. The Kadri trade was Treliving finding an opportunity to improve the team, that's all. From that standpoint, every Flames player is 'expendable', but I don't think he is on the market, and the signing of Stone definitely doesn't make Brodie expendable.



If anyone is expendable, it is probably Hamonic. I like him with his grit and being a fantastic teammate, and I definitely love his off-ice stuff, but he is not as dependable as Brodie is defensively. Him and Hanifin got eaten alive by Colorado in the playoffs, and I saw Brodie as the only consistently capable defender on MacKinnon.



I hope that Tkachuk and Mangiapane sign just under the cap as it stands now, but it is more than likely that Frolik will be the one moving in some trade. Dube is deserving of a spot, and the Flames have other forwards in Stockton like Quine and even Phillips (who could probably use some NHL time as part of his development). Pelletier even can surprise - he is basically a coach's dream in that he works hard and is willing to do the little things to be successful, and he is smart as heck out there with a boatload of talent. You also have decent options as PTOs this year as solid depth pieces that can be signed for cheap. I love Frolik's work ethic and his defensive ability, and I don't even think he is a bad cap hit at all, but he is more easily replaceable IMO. Mangiapane, Dube, and especially Bennett can fill that spot, and I think all of them are better at making stronger offensive plays, though defensively they are definitely not as strong (yet). Plus, it was a bit of a distraction with him publicly complaining about his usage (agent or not, that's on him).



Either way, if the Flames come back as exactly the same team as last year with a better option in net over Smith, and a useful possession/gritty/intimidating player over the black hole Neal was, this will be another special season (this includes Frolik). More experienced, more depth, less time in 'figuring out' a new system and new teammates... West got stronger overall for sure, but the Flames should still be a top tier team and, IMO, the favourites for the Pacific.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:23 PM   #162
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What teams really improved this off season?
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:34 PM   #163
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What teams really improved this off season?


Definitely New Jersey, New York Rangers, and Colorado.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:40 PM   #164
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They way I look at it is the Flames released an overpaid depth dman
Later in the summer they signed a depth dman for league minimum
The fact that player is the same matters little to me. Each decision should be evaluated in and of itself
It’s actually a very shrewd manoeuvre. Renegotiating a contract (in either direction) is not permitted under the CBA. But Treliving has achieved the same result.

So to me its a positive whether you think of it as one deal or two separate items. It’s not the “Stone mess”. The only mistake with Stone happened years ago.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:42 PM   #165
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Definitely New Jersey, New York Rangers, and Colorado.
So 3 out of 31...two of which are irrelevant to the Flames

kinda my point...Flames are still favorites to win their division IMO. A year ago we were thinking bubble team. Things aren't so bad.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:44 PM   #166
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Carolina
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:44 PM   #167
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I think there is a good chance Gio or one of the leaders put in a good word for Stone...they have all be skating together, maybe he looks good/feels good ect.

At league min why not
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:44 PM   #168
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Carolina
oh noes...they might beat us in the finals! point being its not like all Calgary's divisional competition had great summers with major upgrades. If anything our division is worse and the Flames young players are just one year older. I also don't think Talbot will cost the Flames 5+ games in the regular season like Smith did.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:52 PM   #169
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Neverminded Stone. Him getting passed by the young guys last year speaks more about those guys developing quicker then Stone declining, and obviously the health issue which lingered for close to 6 months didn't help which is why they got Fantenberg. He's a depth guy, and last year while overpaid as such, this year, he's not. With "rest" and clearly a chip on his shoulder, I expect him to do just fine in the reduced role.

The work around renegotiation reminded me of the last time you could do this before the currentish CBA, when Sutter and Turek renegotiated his deal in the summer of 2004 to turn two years into three and saving $4m for the Flames.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...78&postcount=5

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Old 09-11-2019, 09:55 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
oh noes...they might beat us in the finals! point being its not like all Calgary's divisional competition had great summers with major upgrades. If anything our division is worse and the Flames young players are just one year older. I also don't think Talbot will cost the Flames 5+ games in the regular season like Smith did.
I was replying to your first comment about which teams got better. Once I hit reply, the part about the west came up. Didn’t read that at first. I was impressed with Carolina’s off season. No need to be snarky over it.

I guess we’ll see on how many games Talbot costs you. Or at least how many games you’re down by one after the first shot.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:55 PM   #171
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Dallas definitely as well got stronger. Heck most of the western teams got better then last year. No not oilers lol
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:04 PM   #172
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We’re still paying Stone next year so it’s not like anyone in the league would be up in arms over this. Buyouts still suck.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:06 PM   #173
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We’re still paying Stone next year so it’s not like anyone in the league would be up in arms over this. Buyouts still suck.
They also had time to call him themselves, or invite him to camp. If we were talking about a top pairing guy I’d understand some anger.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:10 PM   #174
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Always liked Stone. Happy to have him back.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:45 PM   #175
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This pretty much sums it up

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Old 09-12-2019, 05:54 AM   #176
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Does a player have to go through waivers for compliance buyouts?


If no, I think that is the reason this is allowed.



This can't happen to any and all players because the risk they would be pouched on waivers before a team could re-sign them to the cap friendly deal.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:44 AM   #177
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Does a player have to go through waivers for compliance buyouts?


If no, I think that is the reason this is allowed.
Just like normal buyouts a player still has to clear waivers to use a compliance buyout unless the player has a NMC in which case the player can opt to skip the waivers.

The reason a player is not allowed to re-join a team after a compliance buyout is that there is no cap penalty for a compliance buyout. The CBA negotiators recognized that without the penalty it would make it extremely easy for a rich team to buyout a bad contract and re-sign the player to a more cap friendly deal AND the player to end up with more money than they originally were going to make. Teams like the Rangers would have been taking advantage of it big time.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:27 AM   #178
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Stone is interchangeable with Hamonic to me, buying him out in the first place was dumb. Should have moved Hamonic for picks/never even traded for him in the first place.

Good to have Stone back, hopefully he’s put in the work this off season that a player who’s on their way out of the league should have put in.
That's a lot of hate on for a player to make that comparison.

Last year Hamonic among 185 defenseman (31 teams x 6).

20th in CF%
15th in xGF%
13th in SCF%
12th in HDCF%

The guy is probably the most underpaid defenseman in the game last year, and a huge reason the second pair quieted down making the team a contender.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:05 AM   #179
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Michael Stone has been a class act since early the day he arrived. I'm glad he was able to get another contract with the flames.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:29 AM   #180
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At the end of the day, I am more comfortable with Stone as a 7th defenseman than Dalton Prout or Matt Bartkowski, so I will take it.
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