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Old 09-08-2019, 07:28 PM   #1
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Default Referee incident at a youth hockey tournament in Lethbridge

Don't know if this deserves its own thread but. It sounds like a 10 year old player slashed a referee, the referee responded and then this happened.


https://twitter.com/statuses/1170859782216896512
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:39 PM   #2
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I make no conclusions as to who was in the wrong here since I don’t know the facts.

But I have watched enough youth hockey over the years to know there is a problem with hockey culture when it comes to treatment of officials. For whatever reason it is a problem that is worse in hockey than other sports.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:40 PM   #3
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The guys chasing down the officials were coaches.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:49 PM   #4
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If the players are 10, how old could the ref be? Like 14-15?
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:59 PM   #5
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Throw the book at the kid who slashed the ref for sure. No more hockey for you.
Throw the book at the coaches. Suspension for life.

As for the ref, depends what he did to the kid.

Maybe it would be good to see a video on Hockey Night. Make it clear to all of the kids and parents watching that this is unacceptable. They don’t have to name names, but publicize the incident and have people who are the face of hockey nationally step up and denounce it. Public shaming may have constructive applications.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
If the players are 10, how old could the ref be? Like 14-15?
It’s a for profit 3 on 3 tournament. I find that the refs are usually adults at these things. Same ref might be on the ice all day.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:49 PM   #7
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Like others have said it's hard to know how to judge the reaction without knowing the refs age and what he did to the kid

Agree with DM about putting incidents like this on hockey night or something similar would be helpful, along with a message of how pathetic it is, lots of people dont know about this underbelly in elite youth hockey and so it flys way under the radar
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:48 AM   #8
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Hockey really needs to push a culture similar to rugby where confrontation with the ref leads to penalties and ejections. It starts with the coaches and captains and just needs to be harsh and have no reconsideration.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #9
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I would like to see some charges come out of that. Unacceptable behaviour by several adults in that video.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn View Post
It’s a for profit 3 on 3 tournament. I find that the refs are usually adults at these things. Same ref might be on the ice all day.
For profit 10 year old tournament? What? Child Labour!
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:36 AM   #11
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The posts in this thread are clearly from people who don't understand the significance of a 10 yr old 3 on 3 tournament in Lethbridge Alberta in early September.


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Old 09-09-2019, 08:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Hockey really needs to push a culture similar to rugby where confrontation with the ref leads to penalties and ejections. It starts with the coaches and captains and just needs to be harsh and have no reconsideration.
This needs to happen.

Groans and a certain level of jeers from parents is acceptable and expected for perceived blown calls by minor refs. But the minute it turns into verbal abuse, immediate ejection. Physical abuse of an official should lead to lifetime bans from any minor hockey event.

The culture of attacking refs needs to be changed.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
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This needs to happen.

Groans and a certain level of jeers from parents is acceptable and expected for perceived blown calls by minor refs. But the minute it turns into verbal abuse, immediate ejection. Physical abuse of an official should lead to lifetime bans from any minor hockey event.

The culture of attacking refs needs to be changed.
I don't even think the bolded is acceptable.

The majority of minor hockey refs are minor hockey players, that is to say they are kids.

The only time concern should be raised to the ref is when there are safety issues arising.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
This needs to happen.

Groans and a certain level of jeers from parents is acceptable and expected for perceived blown calls by minor refs. But the minute it turns into verbal abuse, immediate ejection. Physical abuse of an official should lead to lifetime bans from any minor hockey event.

The culture of attacking refs needs to be changed.

I don't believe that jeers are acceptable or verbally abusing the refs to me should be zero tolerance and that's from the parents, coaches, and players. I was talking to a ref for football, and the reason they're having trouble finding youth sports officials is because there is a perception that its just a job that you have to take a lot of abuse.


I've also found that the parents that are jeering and groaning have next to no control over themselves and they're just noticeable.


Remember that these young officials aren't pro's they're learning the game and trying to get on track with the speed of the game. They're also evaluated after the game, in football by video's of the game, they know they've missed calls etc.


Oh and the bottom line is this and I've gone after my coaches on this. The minute you start jeering and groaning whether you're a coach or player or parent. The kids playing pick up that negativity like a sponge and it spirals. Also good luck getting a call in your favor when you need it.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:21 AM   #15
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Yeah, I guess I should clarify. If I'm a parent watching pewee or bantam kids and a ref blows an obvious icing, I groan and just say Oh Come On to the dad next to me. That level of jeering, but I suppose that was the wrong word. Actual yelling of any kind or booing the ref from the stands is unacceptable.

I agree about coaches though. You want them to teach the kids that all they can control is their own play and not the refs, therefore they should not groan or complain about refs. They should be examples to the kids.

Hopefully one day if there is a culture change and refs and coaches respected each other above all, coaches and refs could have mini conferences during intermissions/stoppages to discuss player safety if things start getting chippy, or if coaches request clarifications in a respectful manner about calls.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Yeah, I guess I should clarify. If I'm a parent watching pewee or bantam kids and a ref blows an obvious icing, I groan and just say Oh Come On to the dad next to me. That level of jeering, but I suppose that was the wrong word. Actual yelling of any kind or booing the ref from the stands is unacceptable.

I agree about coaches though. You want them to teach the kids that all they can control is their own play and not the refs, therefore they should not groan or complain about refs. They should be examples to the kids.

Hopefully one day if there is a culture change and refs and coaches respected each other above all, coaches and refs could have mini conferences during intermissions/stoppages to discuss player safety if things start getting chippy, or if coaches request clarifications in a respectful manner about calls.
This culture change comes from the home as well, and not to pick on you, but even the complaining to the dad next to you about a blown icing isn't really needed.

I ave been on the bench and had a ref come to our bench in crying because of the abuse that the other bench put on him, and he was their "home" ref.

It is disgusting.

If we accept mistakes from our players/kids we should accept mistakes from the officials.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:44 AM   #17
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I really like some of the comments on here. I 100% agree it has to start with the parents. And while I like the idea of showing the video on a national platform like HNIC, it also isn't enough. Because everyone can see this video and realize the behavior is unacceptable. And let's face it, this kind of incident is extremely rare.

But its parents that are WAY too emotionally invested in the win/loss record of their kids hockey team that is the start of the problem. So show some videos of parents yelling at officials. More people would see that video and say "yeah that's been me a couple of times".

I get quite surprised at the level of vitriol towards the officials in the gameday threads in the FOI forum. Yes it's the pros and things are quite different. But the level of hatred and lack of self control has to be related to this problem IMO.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:46 AM   #18
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I was a minor hockey ref from age 15-17(early 90's), the amount of abuse was insane. Having grown men throw sticks, water bottles, threaten you, over a penalty call, or missed call was a real eye opener. I was chased around the ice by players.

It was a pretty decent job as a teenager, the pay wasn't too bad if you were calling bantam and midget games, in the end though, it just wasn't worth it anymore.

I'm not sure how it is now, but back then, you didn't get a whole lot of support from any of the league governors no matter the level of minor hockey.

/coolstarrybra
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:01 AM   #19
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The bottom line to me is it does come from the amateur sports organizations to set the tone. I can only use football as I've never coached or had a kid in hockey.



However we have to go back to the concept of a contract between parents, coaches and the sport. Coaches in football have to take a course on ethical decisions in coaching, but it doesn't really mention the relationship between coaches and refs, and touches on the relationship between coaches and parents in terms of field safety and concussion/injury protocols. I think it needs to go further.



1) there needs to be more of a contract between coaches and officials, and a zero policy for abuse either way. Refs get things wrong, they get yelled at and they get frustrated. Coaches see wrong calls, and they go back to the old coaches 101 and lose their mind. I think there needs to be a one and done rule per game. If you abuse a ref, the head ref will warn the bench, and warn the head coach. If it happens again the offending coach and the head coach get tossed from the game and could be suspended for the next game. If you have three of these incidence in a year, maybe your suspended for the following year.


For parents its tougher, maybe the league needs to have a representative in the stands thats willing to go cool a parent down if they get out of control, and that person has to be willing to walk the parent out. Then there's a condition where they have to talk to the team manager, or association rep before they're allowed back in the stands.



3) At the same time, I have to say there needs to be an increased expectation of players. We played a team this week that was full on trash talking not only at the game but on social media all week. Their players were not only trash talking the players but beaking at the opposition bench. that comes from the opposition coaches either allowing this, or teaching it to their players to be "Intimidating". Refs have to be more willing to call unsportsman like, but they often don't because they're intimidated by veteran coaches.


Just my two cents.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:02 AM   #20
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That ref could have easily gotten away from the coaches if he wanted to, being on skates and all.
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