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Old 07-12-2021, 07:24 AM   #41
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Alberta does not have great geothermal resources. There are a few decent options in BC.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:57 AM   #42
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Smaller scale than the discussions in this thread - but saw this story recently:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...cy-2021-07-09/

Basically a toilet that is used to power a building in a Korea lab. 'Users' of the toilet get rewards for their deposits that they can use to pay for goods at the university.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:45 AM   #43
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Alberta does not have great geothermal resources. There are a few decent options in BC.
Perhaps my definition of geothermal is wrong. May I ask why Alberta does not have great geothermal resources?
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:52 AM   #44
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perspective on the subject is very... subjective. For example someone living in a high density city that is very close to other cities and infrastructure will see/experience scalable upgrades that more remote areas will not. For example... comparing more remote areas of Western Canada to Europe or eastern USA. "We" in western Canada simply do not have the infrastructure of electrical transmission for EV's without HUGE funding, likewise for hydrogen. Similarly Hydro seems so easy... to some in BC and eastern Canada yet not truly feasible on a grander scale to those on the prairies. So, IMO, the solution towards migrating towards "greener" and renewable s will have to allow for acknowledging areas of strength and weakness. Seems so obvious to say, yet it's rarely said in the media or in discussions.


Also... again so obvious, there very much so is a transition period from a dominant energy source to a wider distribution of energy sources. This has been taking years, and will continue to take time as well. The following link to current Alberta energy is a great reference for where our infrastructure is currently focused:
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:55 AM   #45
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You need higher temperatures, and in Alberta you have to drill pretty deep to reach them. There are some interesting technologies like Eavor's loop that has a demo project around Rocky Mountain House, I think. I suspect it will end up being better elsewhere though, where there are higher temperatures.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:58 AM   #46
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https://www.cangea.ca/location.html
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:00 PM   #47
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perspective on the subject is very... subjective. For example someone living in a high density city that is very close to other cities and infrastructure will see/experience scalable upgrades that more remote areas will not. For example... comparing more remote areas of Western Canada to Europe or eastern USA. "We" in western Canada simply do not have the infrastructure of electrical transmission for EV's without HUGE funding, likewise for hydrogen. Similarly Hydro seems so easy... to some in BC and eastern Canada yet not truly feasible on a grander scale to those on the prairies. So, IMO, the solution towards migrating towards "greener" and renewable s will have to allow for acknowledging areas of strength and weakness. Seems so obvious to say, yet it's rarely said in the media or in discussions.


Also... again so obvious, there very much so is a transition period from a dominant energy source to a wider distribution of energy sources. This has been taking years, and will continue to take time as well. The following link to current Alberta energy is a great reference for where our infrastructure is currently focused:
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet
Superficially you're correct, but most of the actual people involved in funding/research/policy/journalism are looking at it this as many regional solutions to a global problem. Like DoubleK looking at transmission lines to share disparate generation from mutually beneficial sources, or more distributed generation and microgrids in rural areas, this is key to having a resilient grid. As for being subjective, you're absolutely right. Predicting how this will unfold is so variable that what seems absolutely right from one viewpoint can get blown away from another. The only thing that seems absolute is the incredibe speed that it's starting to change
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:27 PM   #48
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Maybe these guys are just thinking about drilling deeper?

https://energyrates.ca/geothermal-energy-place-alberta/
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:42 PM   #49
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There are probably locations you can make it work along the foothills, my point was that we aren't the greatest location for geothermal, and you aren't going to save the province and access easy energy by repurposing old well bores, as some tend to think. It may well be part of the future energy mix in some capacity, but it's far from a natural gas replacement.


Probably more useful for district energy solutions where you need to heat a building, instead of the higher temperatures needed for energy generation.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:22 PM   #50
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The intertie might be undersized, but it's absolutely not underutilized.

The biggest problem right now is that the intertie tends to get hit by lightning, a lot. The last few under frequency events have been caused by the intertie tripping requiring the system operators to dump load to restore frequency.

The article you linked is spot on. I would add that it takes about 10 years to get a significant powerline approved and built. Add in the fact that a line to Site C would be an interprovincial undertaking, you now have the NEB process to deal with.
Yes, seems like high voltage transmission lines are going to be the pipeline debates of the future. We will need them to transport clean power, but nobody is going to want them in their backyard and finding right of ways that minimize impact is going to be costly / challenging.
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Old 07-12-2021, 04:51 PM   #51
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Yes, seems like high voltage transmission lines are going to be the pipeline debates of the future. We will need them to transport clean power, but nobody is going to want them in their backyard and finding right of ways that minimize impact is going to be costly / challenging.
Yup. This read last year was illuminating:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...ewable-targets
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:31 PM   #52
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It's completely my gut instinct, but I have always been instinctually suspicious of the concept of Geothermal. You look at what we have done to the atmosphere and oceans, and just imagine us having an commensurate impact on the outer crust and it's a scary thought. As bad a some of the worst projections of climate change are, we are generally thinking about open systems that regularly exchange energy with the solar system. My first feeling about geothermal, is it's a fun niche technology for rich environmentalist but if we start thinking about scaling it up millions of times, I worry about us changing the balance of energy within the earth, and worry that any unintended consequences would be far less manageable than even what we are facing now. Might not be a reasonable concern, but I think it's one that should be considered very carefully.


Also living in Alberta, far and away the most annoying thing about these conversations is all the people who need to point out that renewables are bad too. Yes I do understand mining happens in the production of batteries, and there is waste, and wind mills don't last forever, and I do know that the power grids in Texas failed when it got cold (even though it was improper winterization of natural gas plants that toppled the dominos causing everything else to fail). But none of those problems prove that it isn't an urgent concern to reduce our dependency of O&G. They are other problems we need to keep working on while we move away from O&G.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:23 PM   #53
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My career transitioned from working at a small EPCM in O&G to working at an electrical utility in their capital projects group about two years ago, with my first project being a wind power facility.

From a cutting-edge technology perspective, it's really cool to see these massive blades, gearboxes and drivetrains, and tower sections all being delivered to site and assembled with some of the largest mobile cranes available. Putting these WTGs together is a major endeavor and still very manpower-intensive during the construction phase. It's unfortunate that all of the components come in from overseas instead of being manufactured here (and we had massive shipping issues due to port congestion/COVID). Also, very few ports can handle the sizes of our WTG shipments and especially the transportation requirements for getting out of port and onto highways.

Totally agree regarding transmission lines, unfortunately they're a visible eyesore and although we're one step removed from the TFO, I've heard that there is quite a bit of opposition from public stakeholders (and not always unjustifiably so).
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:42 PM   #54
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My career transitioned from working at a small EPCM in O&G to working at an electrical utility in their capital projects group about two years ago, with my first project being a wind power facility.

From a cutting-edge technology perspective, it's really cool to see these massive blades, gearboxes and drivetrains, and tower sections all being delivered to site and assembled with some of the largest mobile cranes available. Putting these WTGs together is a major endeavor and still very manpower-intensive during the construction phase. It's unfortunate that all of the components come in from overseas instead of being manufactured here (and we had massive shipping issues due to port congestion/COVID). Also, very few ports can handle the sizes of our WTG shipments and especially the transportation requirements for getting out of port and onto highways.

Totally agree regarding transmission lines, unfortunately they're a visible eyesore and although we're one step removed from the TFO, I've heard that there is quite a bit of opposition from public stakeholders (and not always unjustifiably so).
Probably a really stupid question, but is it that much more expensive to bury? I mean, we bury freaking giant pipelines...
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:45 PM   #55
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Before posting my question - are folks open to discussing developments in carbon capture technology in this thread? Or should discussion be kept strictly on renewable technology?
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:49 PM   #56
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Probably a really stupid question, but is it that much more expensive to bury? I mean, we bury freaking giant pipelines...
Not knowing anything about the power industry my understanding is that the conductors on high voltage power lines are not insulated.

So you would need a huge amount of insulation to prevent grounding and overtime insulation breaks down so would likely be less reliable as well.

I doubt itís practical at these voltages.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:58 PM   #57
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Before posting my question - are folks open to discussing developments in carbon capture technology in this thread? Or should discussion be kept strictly on renewable technology?
Also curious about this...the carbon credits market after the Dems won, COP26 and the Hague's court decision (e.g.: Shell) is getting hot as well as climate goals companies make are becoming enforceable.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:00 PM   #58
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Probably a really stupid question, but is it that much more expensive to bury? I mean, we bury freaking giant pipelines...
Not a stupid question. I get it all the time. Really depends on length, voltage and capacity.

240kV and up you are looking at ~3 to 8x. Low end being direct bury, high end being duct bank or conduit install.

They are a b*tch to manufacture (only a few globally), install (manufacturer has to do the splicing) and maintain (super expensive to spare and you need the splice crew back). An overhead wire is about 1 inch in diameter, an equivalent underground cable 5 or 6 inches for the insulation and jacket. That means less on a reel for transportation purposes which means more splices. More splices means more chances for failure.

AC transmission lines make crazy amounts of heat, and kinda like to catch on fire. If anyone lives in the west end of downtown, you'll remember when Enmax lost a cable. That outage was weeks long.

They really are a last resort. High voltage underground are typically found in only the largest cities. Tokyo has a 500kV underground line (and substation for that matter).
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:37 PM   #59
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Canmore buried a section so it didn't spoil the view for the golfers. Then I think that golf course went bust before it opened. Money well spent. Probably right by Sliver's new place.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:50 PM   #60
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Before posting my question - are folks open to discussing developments in carbon capture technology in this thread? Or should discussion be kept strictly on renewable technology?
Seems to me carbon capture needs to be part of the formula, we are pretty much in a yes and situation for ideas and solutions. But carbon capture provides a very similar problem to the rocket equation, it takes energy to capture carbon, so you produce more energy, so you capture more carbon.

The area that would intrigue me the most with carbon capture less about the quality of technology but as a means of burning excess grid capacity. Build too much solar, too much wind, too much nuclear, and when the draw isn't there push trains up hill or desalinate water or make syngas or run super inefficient direct air capture. Easier said than done if you aren't socializing the costs of this excess capacity.
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