2023 Cavalry FC and CPL Thread

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Good article on the FC Edmonton situation. Bluntly, it doesn't look good.

If the claim that the league walked away from a $1 million offer to buy the club is true, the league should have taken that and run...



https://northerntribune.ca/fc-edmonton-fold-discussion/

I've been saying for years (former Eddies ticket holder in the NASL days here) that no one in their right mind is going to buy that club. You'd have to be insane. Stadium situation? terrible. Club brand? terrible Relationship with the soccer community? terrible.

If anyone was interested in owning a CPL club, the obvious move is to start a new club in another city with no baggage.

The talk of the oilers or Alphonso Davies or some unicorn coming along is ridiculous.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

How do they not all lose money?

Travel costs are insane. The TV deal must be near nothing. I agree with the sentiment ticket prices need to be lower to draw better, but doing this stuff in Canada is hard. Halifax to Victoria flights are an insane expense to carry. In a denser country this level would be a bus/train league.

The league mentioned last year that it was around $4 million a year to run a club (Source: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/cpl...nces-1.5941457), although with inflation I'm sure that's on the low side.

I could see Cavalry getting close to break even now simply because they own their stadium and get every penny through the door. Someone from the club told me that in 2019 they were getting $60 per person through the door excluding ticket sales.

Outside of Cavalry, who knows.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

The league mentioned last year that it was around $4 million a year to run a club (Source: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/cpl...nces-1.5941457), although with inflation I'm sure that's on the low side.

I could see Cavalry getting close to break even now simply because they own their stadium and get every penny through the door. Someone from the club told me that in 2019 they were getting $60 per person through the door excluding ticket sales.

Outside of Cavalry, who knows.

My best guess is Halifax is profitable and that's it. As successful as Forge has been, their attendance this season was disappointing.

[TheIronMaiden]

Pure speculation but Cavalry estimated makes 2M on ticket sales alone.



Factor in sponsorships, merch, beer and player sales and they must be cutting close to profit. If that 4M number is right.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Pure speculation but Cavalry estimated makes 2M on ticket sales alone.



Factor in sponsorships, merch, beer and player sales and they must be cutting close to profit. If that 4M number is right.

That sounds pretty high to me? I feel like the seasons tickets sales are probably around 1500 tickets? That’s likely around $700-800k? So they get another million or so from walk up?

I do wonder if travel is subsidized through the Westjet deal and maybe that’s how it stays somewhat viable for the league. Although, if they’re actually pulling down $60/person at Spruce Meadows that’s about $200k per home game (some much more), and they probably and up close to breaking even.

[Party Elephant]

Was it not reported last year that the mediapro deal is worth $10 million a year? Or was that just an unconfirmed rumour. It was thrown around a lot.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by shermanator

The league mentioned last year that it was around $4 million a year to run a club (Source: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/cpl...nces-1.5941457), although with inflation I'm sure that's on the low side.

I could see Cavalry getting close to break even now simply because they own their stadium and get every penny through the door. Someone from the club told me that in 2019 they were getting $60 per person through the door excluding ticket sales.

Outside of Cavalry, who knows.

They don't quite get every penny...F&B is contracted out to an independent company, so a big slice of that revenue doesn't stay with Spruce Meadows or the Cavs.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Julio

They don't quite get every penny...F&B is contracted out to an independent company, so a big slice of that revenue doesn't stay with Spruce Meadows or the Cavs.

They may sub it out, but I imagine the Southern's are still getting their margins.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Wow, the CPL is DUMB for making those kinds of demands. If someone can buy the team at a low entry point, it enables them more funds to build the franchise properly. Does the CPL not see this??

The article says that while a new owner would pay that, the league on the hook potentially for the outstanding debts that were $20M.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

How do they not all lose money?

Travel costs are insane. The TV deal must be near nothing. I agree with the sentiment ticket prices need to be lower to draw better, but doing this stuff in Canada is hard. Halifax to Victoria flights are an insane expense to carry. In a denser country this level would be a bus/train league.

Yeah it really is a surprise that they travel as much as they do. I know they want to be taken serious as league and have a league structure, and coming out of the pandemic get back to normal, but air travel has to be over half of each teams operating cost.
Ticket prices are always a tough job. Would $5 less a seat bring in any more people that would incrementally spend more then charging the 2000 people already going, $5 more. What about $10? Weather dependant, timing dependant, all tough for any business owner.

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

They may sub it out, but I imagine the Southern's are still getting their margins.

Yeah, part of the contract that “catering” company gets for doing the big horse jumping events each time during the year means that the company has to do Cavs games.

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Was it not reported last year that the mediapro deal is worth $10 million a year? Or was that just an unconfirmed rumour. It was thrown around a lot.

Maybe $10M total, over 4 or 5 years. No way that streaming games to a few thousand people, at best, would be valued that much per year.


All this said, I think the owners were all fully expecting losses for the first 3 to 4 years, with the hope that rising interest as teams get built up in communities meant better attendance, and from that more sponsorship locally. Also the media viewership would increase and sponsors on the streaming, or picked up by networks, would bring money incrementally in. Toss in the sale of league talent to Europe and MLS also as pure profit.

Of course then Covid hit so that timeline has gotten delayed by more than the 2 years that Covid affected the games on the field and the financial planning.

[cam_wmh]

And they of course were given incentives from CSB in this millions. But that’s as vague as I’ll leave it, as nobody has been able identify how exactly those monies were distributed, over how long, and if new entrants realize it as well.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Slava

That sounds pretty high to me? I feel like the seasons tickets sales are probably around 1500 tickets? That’s likely around $700-800k? So they get another million or so from walk up?

I do wonder if travel is subsidized through the Westjet deal and maybe that’s how it stays somewhat viable for the league. Although, if they’re actually pulling down $60/person at Spruce Meadows that’s about $200k per home game (some much more), and they probably and up close to breaking even.

Cavalry had 2200 season tickets last year. As far as I know air travel is not subsidized, even though Westjet is a league sponsor.

As cam_wmh mentioned, the owners get a nice chunk via that CSB deal and I think that makes the whole situation work in the longer term. Edmonton is done, York is in trouble, and I feel Valour is not really committed, but the other 5 are in pretty good shape given how hard it is to get a league like this up and running, especially through a pandemic. There's good reason why the Southern's are rumoured to be doubling down on their investment and starting a club in Kelowna...

Really curious to see what type of attendance growth this league sees next year.

[browna]

^
Yes next year is pretty pivotal for where this league is headed financially.

Soccer in the country will be in the brightest spotlight it's ever been starting in the next week or so. People will be at peak interest looking for another outlet for soccer, so MLS and following stars in Europe will gain some more traction. Hopefully CPL gets some of that immediate attention, and builds on it leading up to 2026.

And you're right, the CSB deal with the CSA funnels money that could go to any number of Soccer Canada initiatives and sends it to CPL owners, for better or worse. (resisting another CSA rant, but the CSB deal at least gets that money into the hands of people who can manage it better and with less wastage and corruption than the CSA, of course the CSB has no direct interest in the programs the national governing body should be promoting at grass roots and development levels).
Outside of the league office owning Forge, Cavs have the strongest owners in the league.

[Slava]

Well hopefully Cavalry (and the other clubs) have planned some events to coincide with Canada games and the other major games. It’s pretty easy marketing to piggy back off the WC, and basically a slam dunk in terms of exposure.

I do think the major need for the league over the longer term is TV coverage though. One Soccer/Fubo isn’t enough.

[shermanator]

Looks like Elijah Adekugbe has posted a farewell to Cavalry.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckl683TSdOg/

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Cavalry announces offseason departures
https://cavalryfc.canpl.ca/article/c...-eight-players

Simmons is the only surprise to me. He'll be an in-demand guy. Looks like we are getting an entire new midfield next year!

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

Looks like we are getting an entire new midfield next year!

Or we'll just continue not bringing in midfielders and go with a 7-0-3

[Muta]

Yao and Simmons is going to hurt. Was hoping both would be back. The rest, I'm totally fine with (especially Di Chiara). Would have loved to have seen Field more, but injuries totally derailed his career here.

[TheIronMaiden]

Damn, I loved Yao. He was a tremendous defender. No surprise he was recalled. He was clearly a league ahead.

[TheIronMaiden]

Any hope Jean Aniel-Assi gets loaned again?

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Any hope Jean Aniel-Assi gets loaned again?

I'm hoping so. Would be nice to see him again after a full year in a pro setup. Could be similar to Sean Rea at Valour. Doesn't play too much in year one, returns on loan and dominates his second year!