2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I thought it was Coronato OR a first
certainly not both

Mangiapane looks like a disaster though, he probably has negative value

Well he is the first player in history to sign a big contract and struggle in his first year of the deal so you are onto something there

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Sure but how much of an upgrade is he truly - small sample sizes can be deceiving.

Mangiapane has 16 points at 5v5 this year, Konecny has 22. Coronato and a 1st is not worth that minimal upgrade.

The difference in production this year is all PP. Konecny has 11 points on the top unit, Mangiapane 1 point on the second unit here.

If you go longer term over the past three seasons then Mangiapane has 46 goals to Konecny's 29 at 5v5, and points are pretty equal at 79 for Mangiapane and 84 for Konecny.

I would love to add Konecny, but if the cost is Mangiapane+1st+Coronato then no way in hell do you make that trade. It's probably a laterial move and you give up two premium assets on top of that.

Mangiapane is a decent player, but he has only performed well as a triggerman with certain types of linemates - Backlund/Coleman and variation of that combo in Henrique/Brown (World Championship)

How much of a premium do you put on the extra versatility and skill that Konecny could add? He's well-rounded enough to add another dimension to any of the Flame's lines - e.g. two-way presence for Backlund/Coleman, puck carrying for Lindholm/Toffoli, or general high-end skill (playmaking or finishing) for Huberdeau/Kadri.


By the time Coronato becomes as good as Konecny, the immediate cup window that Treliving is try for will have passed.

Long story short, I'm a big fan of Konecny and think that he would be a great fit on the current iteration of the Flames, even if that means trading Mangiapane and some futures.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I thought it was Coronato OR a first
certainly not both

Mangiapane looks like a disaster though, he probably has negative value

Mangiapane has been poor by the eye test..but really it's not a disaster at 5v5. Konecny has 4 more points at 5v5.

8 goals is still tied for the Flames lead at 5v5 and 16 points is 5th. 16 points at 5v5 ranks tied for 116th in the NHL.

Here are some other forwards that have 8 goals and 16 points at 5v5 like Mangiapane.

-Ryan Nugent Hopkins
-Rickard Rackell
-Sebastian Aho

He has more to give, but no chance is he negative value yet. And those results are with a 6.7% on ice shooting percentage which is crazy low and about 1.5% below his career average.

Originally Posted by boogerz

Mangiapane is a decent player, but he has only performed well as a triggerman with certain types of linemates - Backlund/Coleman and variation of that combo in Henrique/Brown (World Championship)

How much of a premium do you put on the extra versatility and skill that Konecny could add? He's well-rounded enough to add another dimension to any of the Flame's lines - e.g. two-way presence for Backlund/Coleman, puck carrying for Lindholm/Toffoli, or general high-end skill (playmaking or finishing) for Huberdeau/Kadri.


By the time Coronato becomes as good as Konecny, the immediate cup window that Treliving is try for will have passed.

Long story short, I'm a big fan of Konecny and think that he would be a great fit on the current iteration of the Flames, even if that means trading Mangiapane and some futures.

Konency has been just as if not more inconsistent than Mangiapane.

I'd love to add him but not at the cost of Mangiapane + Coronato, or Mangiapane+1st, let alone both of the add ons.

It would be buying high on Konecny and selling low on Mangiapane, which is always a risk with players changing teams and rosters (looks at Jonathan Huberdeau).

The team needs to add a top 9 forward without getting rid of one of our top 5 forwards.

[Vinny01]

End of the day the Flames are not looking to replace their current top 6 wingers but add so Lucic goes back to the 4th liner he is.

I would assume Treliving is trying and I also assume he is frustrated that after bringing up Philips he hardly got a look and Pelletier has yet to get in after 2 games. He will want to see what they have before they mortgage more futures for short term win now pieces.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

End of the day the Flames are not looking to replace their current top 6 wingers but add so Lucic goes back to the 4th liner he is.

I would assume Treliving is trying and I also assume he is frustrated that after bringing up Philips he hardly got a look and Pelletier has yet to get in after 2 games. He will want to see what they have before they mortgage more futures for short term win now pieces.

Exactly. They need to ADD a winger, not spend futures swapping one out.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly. They need to ADD a winger, not spend futures swapping one out.

The Flames arguably have enough top9 wingers if they actually play the top9 wingers in the top9 (i.e. putting Ruzicka on a better line and demoting Lucic)

Spending futures to upgrade a second line winger to a first line winger that will be around for a couple years (e.g. Konecny) is better than spending futures on a rental that will be gone after this year's first round PO exit.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well he is the first player in history to sign a big contract and struggle in his first year of the deal so you are onto something there

well this is new...people are mad at me for criticizing a Flames player lol

Mangiapane has one really good season in the NHL, I doubt he would have much value in a trade at that contract is all I am saying. And yeah makes more sense to keep him than give him away considering he might rebound.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well this is new...people are mad at me for criticizing a Flames player lol

Mangiapane has one really good season in the NHL, I doubt he would have much value in a trade at that contract is all I am saying. And yeah makes more sense to keep him than give him away considering he might rebound.

His 18 goals in 56 games the previous year was pretty solid as well. I don’t think a 26 year old coming off 35 goals making less than $6M and 2 years term has negative value. I see that comment and others saying we need to attach a sweetener to dump Markstrom really shows the “what have you done for me lately”mentality some fans have.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

His 18 goals in 56 games the previous year was pretty solid as well. I don’t think a 26 year old coming off 35 goals making less than $6M and 2 years term has negative value. I see that comment and others saying we need to attach a sweetener to dump Markstrom really shows the “what have you done for me lately”mentality some fans have.

I thought he had 4 years so not as bad as I thought
he does only have 8 goals though...on pace for 16. That is a lot of money for 16 goals. You wouldn't have to pay to get rid of him but I doubt you would get much back either.

again I wouldn't move him anyway because I think its likely he bounces back just saying that IMO he doesn't have much value to other teams. There are like 3 teams in the NHL with cap space, I think we would be shocked who would clear waivers.

[FlamesAddiction]

Konecny brings a lot more than just offense. If you want to inject a tonne of emotion into your top 6, he's the guy. The guy is feisty as heck and plays well above his size.

[CalgarySames]

I do agree, we shouldn't be mortaging our future without seeing what we have in the system first; I think the current logic is as follows.

Imagine you're coaching the team, they are getting really close to doing what you're asking them to do. They still keep showing lapses that are costing them games (I.E. Chicago and St Louis GM1), that's no time to be introducing an offensive rookie to the mix. Our defense has really seemed to have found their game, Weegar is starting to live up to his billing as well. Our all around team defense is coming along but there is still work to do. Offensively, we could be better, but once they prove they can run Sutters system, we will likely see the offense get a little more leash from the Coach.

Once this team has things figured out, I think Phillips and/or Pelletier get some good hard looks. I'm still in the camp for seeing Phillips on a line with Huberdeau! But I don't see it happening until the team starts getting more consistent.

[CalgarySames]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Konecny brings a lot more than just offense. If you want to inject a tonne of emotion into your top 6, he's the guy. The guy is feisty as heck and plays well above his size.

Him on a line with Kadri would be absolute hell for opposing teams to deal with!

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I would do bread + 1st for konecny, absolutely

24 goals in 36 games

he's tearing it up this season and still young

I like mangiapane but I don't know if he will again be a 35 goal player

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I would do bread + 1st for konecny, absolutely

24 goals in 36 games

he's tearing it up this season and still young

I like mangiapane but I don't know if he will again be a 35 goal player

In a year that is expected to be maybe the best draft ever? Take a look at the players throughout round 1 in 2003 - that's the kind of expectation you are trading away.

Is the difference between Mangiapane and Konecny that great?

I might do that trade in other years, where the draft is considered more normal, and where the Flames pick is in the 20-25 range. But this year? No.

Also, again, the Flames need to ADD a winger.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I would do bread + 1st for konecny, absolutely

24 goals in 36 games

he's tearing it up this season and still young

I like mangiapane but I don't know if he will again be a 35 goal player

Heck no.

Mangiapane has a history of continuing to improve and growing his game.

He has struggled this year, but to panic and dump him right away and with a 1st for a player who is having their best NHL season ever? No.

That’s the definition of selling low and buying high.

Also, it doesn’t do anything to address the Flames lack of a top-9 forward as it sends one away and brings one in - at the cost of our most valuable asset (the 2023 1st).

Heck no. No. No.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I would do bread + 1st for konecny, absolutely

24 goals in 36 games

he's tearing it up this season and still young

I like mangiapane but I don't know if he will again be a 35 goal player

Why would Philly?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by iggyloob12

Why would Philly?

The get a fairly comparable player, in a comparable age range and money while also securing what right now looks to be 12-18th overall draft pick in what is shaping up to be the best draft since 2015. Flyers are going nowhere so adding the flames pick to their own first helps with rebuilding efforts and Mangiapane could easily be the better player next year when compared to Konecny.

For many reasons stated above it would be a bad trade for the Flames to make.

[Royle9]

LOL at anyone who thinks the Flyers are going to trade away their #1 point producing Forward a Center at that for a mid to late 1st round pick OR a mid round prospect in Coronato.

There's about a 0% chance the flyers look to trade away Konecny at all, unless its a significant overpayment/deal.

It would EASILY cost the Flames a 1st + Coronato + more to acquire him.

This is why it makes no sense at all.

Flyers wouldn't trade Konecny 1 for 1 for Eatbread either.

Just kill this trade idea already, its not logical for either team currently.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is the difference between Mangiapane and Konecny that great?

Just my opinion, but I think Konecny has way more to offer than Mangiapane. Whether or not a mid 1st rounder and/or adding Coronato is too excessive to make up for it, I don't know. Both those assets are mystery boxes and it could go either way.

But just strictly swapping out Mangiapane for Konecny would be a pretty significant immediate upgrade IMO.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is the difference between Mangiapane and Konecny that great?

Yes I think Konecny is not only younger but just a better overall player that is more impactful. Flyers would be crazy to trade him unless they think removing him from the lineup will send them to the best lottery odds for Bedard.