What the science says about traffic and speed.

[Dion]

The argument for driving slowly in what is commonly known as "the fast lane" is simple: "The maximum posted speed on Deerfoot is generally 100 km/h. Therefore, if I am driving in the so-called fast lane, I am obeying the law. I am morally superior to those who are attempting to speed and I am performing a valuable public service by preventing these speed-demon-anti-social-yahoos from doing just that. So there. Na-na-na-na-na."

It says only 45% of drivers drive the speed limit.

The majority of us don't obey the rules.

The nature of the road, traffic volume, experience, talent, road conditions, the quality of the technology in the automobile we're driving … all of those variables play into our decision making.

The U.S. Department of Transportation has found that driver behaviour, by and large, is independent of posted speed limits.

We drive as fast as we think is safe.

An Indiana study reported that speed limits are set for political reasons rather than traffic safety reasons.

Other studies conclude that safety is improved when people travel with the flow of traffic around them, neither exceeding the speed established by the herd, nor undercutting it.

People driving too slowly are associated with more accidents, as frustrated motorists are forced to change lanes to get around them, to move from where the traffic is supposed to be moving quickly into the lanes where traffic moves more slowly.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/10/10...eing-difficult

[WhiteTiger]

Because the WGMG thread just wasn't good enough.

[Acey]

I'm one of the biggest advocates for higher speed limits that you'll find anywhere. But my two big issues are that people aren't good enough drivers and vehicle equipment needs to be enforced far more than it is currently. Before we start cranking up speed limits, we would need to do the following, in my opinion:

• Variable speed limits for main thoroughfares like Deerfoot, Stoney, Glenmore et al., because it's winter for six months of the year in Alberta. Stoney Tr SE with no speed limit when it's covered in black ice... not good.
• Make it far more difficult to acquire a driver's license. Actually test practical knowledge during road tests, instead of the current parameters of knowing the difference between the gas and the brake and to not hit anybody. Mandate a written exam as well that include questions about how cold weather affects vehicle performance.
• Mandate winter tires from roughly Nov 15 to April 15
• Huge education campaign on "slower traffic keep right" and "keep right except to pass," and subsequent enforcement of those rules punishable by demerits
• Much stricter enforcement of inoperative turn signals, brake lights, et al., and their usage on major thoroughfares

Until people start sucking a little bit less and actually take care of their vehicles, I'm quite content with the majority of our speed limits.

[btimbit]

Acey pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Speed doesnt kill. Bad drivers kill.

Traffic is safest when it's going the same speed, regardless of the legal limit. Only solution to this problem is proper education and equipment enforcement. Raise the speed limit all you want, you'll still get the dangerous a-holes on deerfoot doing 80 in the middle lane.

[T@T]

For safety freeways like deerfoot should have 3 posted and inforced speed limits.

Never happen because it makes too much sense and would screw the coffers but.

120-110-100 for each lane.

Just tonight there was someone driving a camel doing 70k in the middle lane. rush hour on sunday at 9pm for a stretch. Too much turkey perhaps!

[V]

In China on the freeways they had minimum speed limits for different lanes. That seemed to work out well. Keeps the big trucks and Sunday drivers to the right.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by V

In China on the freeways they had minimum speed limits for different lanes. That seemed to work out well. Keeps the big trucks and Sunday drivers to the right.

Don't the bicycles take the right lane?

j/k

[GGG]

Originally Posted by T@T

For safety freeways like deerfoot should have 3 posted and inforced speed limits.

Never happen because it makes too much sense and would screw the coffers but.

120-110-100 for each lane.

Just tonight there was someone driving a camel doing 70k in the middle lane. rush hour on sunday at 9pm for a stretch. Too much turkey perhaps!

This isn't that expensive to do. Settles I-5 and salt lake cities I-15 have it.

Speed limits do influence the speed people go to a point. A fear of tickets does regulate speed. The Alberta TAC manual I believe states to try to set the speed limit to the 85th percentile speed as that reduces the gap between the 5th percentile speed and the 95th percentile speed.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Acey pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Speed doesnt kill. Bad drivers kill.

Traffic is safest when it's going the same speed, regardless of the legal limit. Only solution to this problem is proper education and equipment enforcement. Raise the speed limit all you want, you'll still get the dangerous a-holes on deerfoot doing 80 in the middle lane.

Within reason of course. I'm always being passed on the highway by drivers doing 130-140 kms, which at times seems to be the norm. You are considered going very slow if you are doing 110.

[Cheese]

Here in Korea I think they have speed limits, but the drivers dont. They also have lines drawn on the road for some reason, but I think they are there simply for artistic merit.
Motorcycles have the right of way no matter where they are, sidewalks, between vehicles, grass, pedestrian crosswalks...they are superior to everything, including humans.
Lanes here have U-Turns in the middle of busy streets...everything uses them, even city buses. Taxi's can do whatever the hell they want...and they do, at high speed....while watching television on their dashboard.
Yet I have not seen one accident in my time here. I'm sure they happen, somewhere, maybe.

/edit

Looked at some road laws and indeed Motorcycles are different: W=Korean Wan which is ~ 1000/1CAD

Fines:
Speeding 40km/hr over limit: W90,000 car; W60,000 motorcycle
Signal violation, u-turn/reverse violation, pedestrian crossing violation, mobile phone usage: W60,000 passenger car; W40,000 motorcycle
Parking violation, bus-only lane violation, emergency violation yielding violation, failing to drive safely (including dangerious driving): W40,000 passenger car; W30,000 motorcyle,

Point Penalities:
10 points: lane changing violation, no passing zone violation, engaging in disputes/arguments on the road that interferes with traffic, etc.
15 points: signal violation (crossing on a red/amber light), use of cell phone while driving, no passing violation, exceeding speed limity by 20-40km/hr, bus-only lane violation, etc.
30 points: crossing the center divide line, exceeding speed limit by 40km/hr, driving on highway shoulder, railrod crossing violation, etc.
15 points: signal violation (crossing on a red/amber light), use of cell phone while driving, no passing violation, exceeding speed limity by 20-40km/hr, bus-only lane violation, etc.
2-15 points per injury depending on the seriousness (based on healing/treament time) of the injury
90 points: per death if the victim dies within 72 hours of the accident ???? really?

[Engine09]

Huge education campaign on "slower traffic keep right" and "keep right except to pass," and subsequent enforcement of those rules punishable by demerits

I would give up all my other driving gripes if people would just follow that simple rule of the road.

I've watched drivers merge onto Crowchild with absolutely no one in front of them, cross 3 lanes and proceed to sit in the fast lane doing 70. Why the f would anyone want the left lane if there is not a single vehicle on the road for kms ahead and not a left exit for another 5 kms?

[Daradon]

Only had to read that first paragraph that was posted to know it was a Sun opinion article or editorial, yowza. I don't disagree with the underlying argument but just by the wording you can tell it's more opinion and editorializing, than rational argument. Also it's not so much 'science' as it is statistics, and probably carefully picked ones to boot.

I'm all for higher limits where safe, and for more onus put on slow drivers to shape up, but there's a lot of hop skip and jumping going on in that article to arrive to a conclusion you can tell they were aiming for.

As has been mentioned, we probably shouldn't increase the limits too much till we put in better driver training programs and pay more attention to vehicle maintenance.

Yes slow drivers can be dangerous, I don't disagree. But so are the asshats who tailgate them, the people who are in a rush because they haven't planned ahead or budgetted their time correctly, and the idiots who are constantly switching lanes to try and get ahead. I'd wager the type of driver who speeds is just as dangerous as the one who always go below the limit. There's bad drivers in both groups. Just because one thinks they're Mario Andretti, doesn't mean they're as good as he.

The only thing is, when there is a collision, a faster vehicle is going to do a heck of a lot more damage than a slower one.

[PsYcNeT]

Demerits for red light cam/speed on green please.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Demerits for red light cam/speed on green please.

Sure, the moment you can prove who the driver is.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm one of the biggest advocates for higher speed limits that you'll find anywhere. But my two big issues are that people aren't good enough drivers and vehicle equipment needs to be enforced far more than it is currently. Before we start cranking up speed limits, we would need to do the following, in my opinion:

• Variable speed limits for main thoroughfares like Deerfoot, Stoney, Glenmore et al., because it's winter for six months of the year in Alberta. Stoney Tr SE with no speed limit when it's covered in black ice... not good.
• Make it far more difficult to acquire a driver's license. Actually test practical knowledge during road tests, instead of the current parameters of knowing the difference between the gas and the brake and to not hit anybody. Mandate a written exam as well that include questions about how cold weather affects vehicle performance.
• Mandate winter tires from roughly Nov 15 to April 15
• Huge education campaign on "slower traffic keep right" and "keep right except to pass," and subsequent enforcement of those rules punishable by demerits
• Much stricter enforcement of inoperative turn signals, brake lights, et al., and their usage on major thoroughfares

Until people start sucking a little bit less and actually take care of their vehicles, I'm quite content with the majority of our speed limits.

i know i might be in the minority, but i'd add to your list the retesting for license renewal at certain intervals (maybe once every 10 years until you're 60, then every 5 years?)

i do find it interesting that you only need to 'pass the test' once in your life. my mom was a nurse and to keep her nursing license (is that what it's called?) she had to take classes and exams to stay qualified with new techniques and technologies

[Acey]

We need this on Deerfoot for sure, maybe Glenmore as well and Crowchild south of the University. Expensive, but worth it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I find that on the 401, the biggest problems with traffic flow are created by people who do not get in the right lane when they know full well that their turnoff is coming up. They end up having to cross over 2 lanes in a short period of time and force everyone else to slow down for them. During high traffic hours, this usually ends up causing a complete stop on the highway around those turnoffs.

Or when people wait until the last second to merge causing bottlenecks.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I find that on the 401, the biggest problems with traffic flow are created by people who do not get in the right lane when they know full well that their turnoff is coming up. They end up having to cross over 2 lanes in a short period of time and force everyone else to slow down for them. During high traffic hours, this usually ends up causing a complete stop on the highway around those turnoffs.

Or when people wait until the last second to merge causing bottlenecks.

And in Calgary, the biggest problems seem to be created by people who "need" to move over the moment the dotted white line appears (e.g. 14th to Crowchild on Glenmore).

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Daradon

...
Yes slow drivers can be dangerous, I don't disagree. But so are the asshats who tailgate them, the people who are in a rush because they haven't planned ahead or budgetted their time correctly...

Tailgating is dangerous, I agree, but... When someone is getting close I just let them pass as soon as I can. Obviously, they are in a rush, so why be an a$$ and hold them back? What's the big deal, really. It doesn't cost me anything. Even in a one-lane situation, if the shoulder width is safe, I move to the right until there's enough room for a car behind me to pass. In Europe, people flash their high-beams once or twice and the vehicle in front immediately moves to the right with an apologetic sign, it's a common courtesy there.

Just got back home from a trip to BC; so many drivers in the left lane just crawling, it's so frustrating. A few years ago, driving in In Washington state I noticed an interesting sign – something to the effect of "yield to the right as soon as there are five vehicles lined up behind you" - we could really something similar in Alberta and BC. Saves so much aggravation on the road for everyone.

[#-3]

Cue my rant, that comes out every time a speed limit thread is started.

I think most of the speed limits in Calgary are unreasonably low,

When you look at an area like 16th Ave and 100th St NE.
The Speed limit goes from 90 to 70 to 110 in a 1 KM span, where it is nearly impossible to drive less than 120 through the whole stretch, without obstructing traffic.

In that area the spent i don't know how many millions of dollars to build a high speed interchange then set the speed limit at 70, telling us that it was for safety reason as if we are too stupid to see that it is clearly a preconceived speed trap with limits that have not bearing on what is safe.

Frankly I feel insulted every time I drive past that intersection, I respect all speed limits less because of it, and when I see Cops handing out tickets there I lose respect to the institution of police officers, because they are literally ruining peoples days for no good reason purely on a bad-luck of the draw basis.

(and for those who will say the reason was they were breaking the law. An unjust law is not a law we should accept people being persecuted for, regardless of how big or small the injustice is).

I don't think that is an uncommon sentiment, and I think most of us have areas like that that erk us. It makes speed limits in the city pointless because people don't respect them.

I also think there needs to be posted enforced speed minimums on non-residential roads. If you are driving 90 down the left lane of Deerfoot you have created safety issues for everyone around you and there should at least be legal acknowledgement that you are doing something wrong. Its called the highway traffic safety act, its meant to address safety issues, not to attack people who are driving swiftly yet safely.