[PGT] Flames 5 Ducks 1

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Huberdeau can “take over a game”?

Really?

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Does anyone have Carolinas numbers?

They also seem to be a team with the same volume and shot suppression we have but more goals for and less against and 2nd in the NHL.

I don't think they are much more talented a team.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

I remember being very impressed the last couple years with how much huberdeau had begun to dominate in florida. And last year when he had constant multi point games to stay ahead of Johnny.

Really interested to see what this guy looks like under a different philosophy & system.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

It would be nice to see him start showing it.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Brick

It would be nice to see him start showing it.

[zamler]

I appreciate the arguments and data, but we won a game is this really the place to litigate why the team is no good?

[Scrambler]

I could be out to lunch with this, but I'm glad it was a sunny 10C big Alberta blue sky kind of day for the Flames to come home to. The descent into YYC with the view of the mountains, downtown and the 'Dome. After an emotional roundtrip with a mega low and a well deserved win right after, rumblings/rumors abound, etc. I hope the boys feel good coming home and get the will to power forward to the end. Even if they don't get in, win every game with the likes of Huberdeau and Kadri scoring a fair share and set up some momentum for next season. Go with that mindset at least and maybe just maybe the Jets foul up bad.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I think it's fair to say that they generate the bulk of their shots from the perimeter, and that most of their slot chances are rebounds from those perimeter shots. That can be a little dangerous, but the goalie doesn't move much with those if he's controlling his rebounds alright. What they do not seem to do is generate slot passes or "royal road" passes to move the goalie and create a higher danger shot in that area.

The philosophy is about creating enough bulk shots and chaos to score, but they never try any other strategy to score goals, which is why they are too predictable and easy to defend. It's also why the talent that was good elsewhere has not produced at the same level here.

I get that it should work a lot of the time, but the lack of variation in playing style means that the Flames become a team that is easy to scout and prepare for, and as long as you come somewhat close to matching their work ethic, you'll fair pretty well if you counter attack that strategy and create a few high danger chances. It's why the Flames continuously show good effort in terms of skating and battling, but do not have the results to match the effort.

As a coach in the modern NHL you must have a plan B strategy to win games, because it cannot be just about working hard. This is Sutter's major failing as a coach, and it's the only reason we lost to Edmonton in the playoffs last year. No ability to pivot. No ability to adjust. No ability to respond to adversity. His motto is just "work harder...it'll happen". Except it doesn't, and long-term, you lose more than you win.

Sutter’s approach is just work harder and it will happen? What are you basing this on? No ability to adjust or respond to adversity? Honestly feels like you are describing Huberdeau and not the coach.

It has been a disappointing season but the amount of coaching experts coming out of the woodwork is giving me a headache.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

From Ziggy_Lidstrom picture.

Shot attempts 68.1(2)
Shots 35.6(1)
Perimeter shot attempts 43.7(2)
Slot shots 13.9(13)
Inner slot shots 6.4(21)
% Shot attempts from the slot 35.8%(30)

Se we are #2 in perimeter attempts and 30th for slot attempts.

So what gives? The Kings did the same thing they had lots of talent as well and struggled big time.

I think those stats show why the shooting % is slow.

No, you are mis-interpreting the stats. It says they are 30th in slot shot percentage, but that is because there are also a lot of perimeter shots, not because there aren't enough slot shots.

As Bingo has pointed out numerous times, they are 10th in shots from home plate.

[Enoch Root]

Team A has 100 shots from the slot, and 200 perimeter shots.

Team B has 90 slot shots and 150 perimeter shots

Team A's percentage of slot shots is 33% and Team B's is 37.5%, even though Team A had more slot shots.

#mathishard

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sutter’s approach is just work harder and it will happen? What are you basing this on? No ability to adjust or respond to adversity? Honestly feels like you are describing Huberdeau and not the coach.

It has been a disappointing season but the amount of coaching experts coming out of the woodwork is giving me a headache.

I'm basing it on the fact that I see zero change in strategy or attack in a game. I've watched enough hockey to know when they make an adjustment to when they do not. Mostly, when things aren't going well, there are slight reinforcements to zone exit strategies and the neutral zone, but zero change once they're in the offensive zone. Just do the same thing but harder and more times.

But more importantly, don't #### on people just because you don't agree. Just consider the argument for a second to see if it has merit. I'm not some raving fanboy that rants about this team all that often, but when I see something clear as day I'm going to point it out.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

It would be nice to see him start showing it.

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Of course you were watching Huberdeau before he retired.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm basing it on the fact that I see zero change in strategy or attack in a game. I've watched enough hockey to know when they make an adjustment to when they do not. Mostly, when things aren't going well, there are slight reinforcements to zone exit strategies and the neutral zone, but zero change once they're in the offensive zone. Just do the same thing but harder and more times.

But more importantly, don't #### on people just because you don't agree. Just consider the argument for a second to see if it has merit. I'm not some raving fanboy that rants about this team all that often, but when I see something clear as day I'm going to point it out.

No one is ####ting on you.

But vague comments like his coaching approach is just to try harder and he has no plan B is just kind of ranting.

It's not a video game with the coach using the controller. If you don't think he's getting through to the players, I understand that. If replacing the coach is easier than replacing immoveable contracts, sure I get that too.

He's not coaching an .880 save percentage.
I'm confident he's not coaching Kadri to pick and choose when he forechecks or looks for his teammates.
And to suggest Sutter is the difference between 115 point Huberdeau and 50 point Huberdeau is giving him far more credit than he deserves.

If you feel so strongly that Sutter is that useless, you should be prepared for some debate IMO.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No one is ####ting on you.

But vague comments like his coaching approach is just to try harder and he has no plan B is just kind of ranting.

It's not a video game with the coach using the controller. If you don't think he's getting through to the players, I understand that. If replacing the coach is easier than replacing immoveable contracts, sure I get that too.

He's not coaching an .880 save percentage.
I'm confident he's not coaching Kadri to pick and choose when he forechecks or looks for his teammates.
And to suggest Sutter is the difference between 115 point Huberdeau and 50 point Huberdeau is giving him far more credit than he deserves.

If you feel so strongly that Sutter is that useless, you should be prepared for some debate IMO.

Provide evidence to the contrary. All things are interrelated. The lower offensive output and poor save percentage is a result of all the things I mentioned already, because teams have learned how to play the Flames and win, despite being outworked and outshot. It's not 100% on him, but he bears a significant portion of the blame this year, because time and time again he has done very little to right the ship and get things moving in a good direction.

So far there's a lot of points to support my position, and not as much to support yours. I'm having a debate, willingly, but I haven't had anything presented yet as convincing evidence that cannot also be explained by poor coaching and leadership by Sutter.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Provide evidence to the contrary. All things are interrelated. The lower offensive output and poor save percentage is a result of all the things I mentioned already, because teams have learned how to play the Flames and win, despite being outworked and outshot. It's not 100% on him, but he bears a significant portion of the blame this year, because time and time again he has done very little to right the ship and get things moving in a good direction.

So far there's a lot of points to support my position, and not as much to support yours. I'm having a debate, willingly, but I haven't had anything presented yet as convincing evidence that cannot also be explained by poor coaching and leadership by Sutter.

You are claiming that Sutter's approach to coaching is "work harder, it'll happen" and then suggest the burden is on someone else to provide evidence to the contrary?

Frankly for the most part I don't hate how the team has played this year. They out shoot and out chance the opposition. Read one of Bingo's game summaries if you'd like to see details on high danger chances most nights.

Abysmal goaltending.
Two stars who signed massive retirement contracts before playing for the team have largely been no shows.

Why ignore these factors and focus so much on coaching?

Is Sutter the answer? I'm sure as hell not saying that. I also don't pretend to know how he is coaching these guys either and I don't see him as "the" problem.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

I watched a lot of Panther games

Can confirm

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You are claiming that Sutter's approach to coaching is "work harder, it'll happen" and then suggest the burden is on someone else to provide evidence to the contrary?

Frankly for the most part I don't hate how the team has played this year. They out shoot and out chance the opposition. Read one of Bingo's game summaries if you'd like to see details on high danger chances most nights.

Abysmal goaltending.
Two stars who signed massive retirement contracts before playing for the team have largely been no shows.

Why ignore these factors and focus so much on coaching?

Is Sutter the answer? I'm sure as hell not saying that. I also don't pretend to know how he is coaching these guys either and I don't see him as "the" problem.

Ugh.

I sure do, by and large

High danger chances are basically a fine tuning of shots on goal for location and situation and have nothing to do with dangerous shots

They basically are more reflective of possession than of how they capitalize on their possession, or the actual challenge to the opposing goaltender

It is not a coincidence that so many rookies, backups, and essentially goaltending randos have looked like geniuses against this team

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by peter12

Honestly, this team is so ####ing streaky.

Streaky would imply good and bad streaks, no?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes. Really. I've seen it countless times.

There were games when the Panthers only needed Huberdeau and Barkov playing their best hockey to win. Sometimes it was just Huberdeau.

I know nobody will believe me because of what we've seen this year, but I promise you, this is NOT the Jonathan Huberdeau that I've seen in the past or the player you should expect him to be.

I think most hockey fans would understand that Huberdeau is what he's been for years on not what he's been this season. Hard to swallow and easy to see this as the new Huberdeau when your team sunk $84mil in to him, though.

I think with a new a coach we'll see a return to what he was the last few years. He didn't forget how to produce at a top tier level, not a chance.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I think most hockey fans would understand that Huberdeau is what he's been for years on not what he's been this season. Hard to swallow and easy to see this as the new Huberdeau when your team sunk $84mil in to him, though.

I think with a new a coach we'll see a return to what he was the last few years. He didn't forget how to produce at a top tier level, not a chance.

He easily could had a few points in this game. He set up Dube in the slot twice and gave Backlund a breakaway.