Sutter is the problem

[united]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

The point I'm trying to make is there is no such thing as a perfect coach. I'm sure a lot of people on this board would agree that Scotty Bowman is a legendary coach who won over 1,000 games and 9 Stanley Cups. Most people would be thrilled to get someone of his caliber.

But the flip side is not everyone agrees. Look at some of the comments from former players of his:

"Shawn Burr and Dino Ciccarelli played for Bowman in Detroit. Mikael Andersson was drafted by Bowman in Buffalo. At first, none want to relive the experience. They say they'd rather not comment. But soon, they can't stop talking. Basically he has the personality of a (expletive)," Burr said. "He is the most disrespectful person I've ever met. He's just a mean man with no social skills. You can't argue with his success as a hockey coach, but the way he treats people? That's not right. I could tell a million stories."

“We all hated Scotty 364 days a year. On the 365th day, we collected our Stanley Cup rings.” - Steve Shutt, fellow Hall of Famer who won five Stanley Cups under Bowman

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Don't a lot of bad teams do this and not just the Flames? Coach is always the easiest scapegoat for players and fans.

Yup. The oilers went through several coaches and some pretty decent ones too. When you have a group that hasn't won anything chances are the finger gets pointed at the coach. They had some good players through the draft but a lot of those players were abd are still interested in personal points.

The Flames don't have anyone who is elite, and Huberdeau isnt being that guy so how does this group plan on getting it done?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

well I think the only coach this really applies to is Gulutzan, and there are only 2 players left on this team from his era.

Peters was terminated for his racist comments.
Ward was absolutely the worst coach this team has ever had (just look at the Flames underlying numbers before and after Ward - absolutely unreal how he tanked this team).
And now we have Sutter.

And Sutter has for some reason gone senile.

Sometimes the coach just isn't right for the group. And Sutter hasn't made any effort to adapt to his team.

This really needs to be repeated. Peters-Ward-Sutter was a result of weird circumstances

People quickly forget the economic uncertainty at the time Ward was made permanent. There were no obviously great options (aside from maybe Sutter, who wasn't ready), and Ward had just done a solid enough job turning around the previous season (at least until the playoffs).


IF there is a pattern here, I think it's as simple as year-to-year inconsistency - exceed lower expectations one year, fail to meet higher expectations the next. It's actually a pretty crazy pattern:

OUT
IN
OUT
IN
OUT
IN
BUBBLE (among 5 teams essentially tied for last 3 spots at stoppage)
OUT
IN
OUT

This is probably unprecedented (though largely because it's only been 10-15 years of having this many teams in the league that are nearly all competitive each year...maybe there are some teams who have bounced back and forth between say top 5 in conference and 6-10 each year, but it wouldn't look as obvious)

Originally Posted by Ferarri

This group is going to be hard to coach no matter who is the bench boss. If you have players threatening to leave since they don't like the coach then that should be a strong indicator of the character in the room.

By all means voice your displeasure to the GM in private but to come out publicly with the season on the line is a rather telling statement.

They could be in a for a surprise though since I don't see a lot of GM's wanting to trade for Kadri or Huberdeau's contract. Why would they? Both have been terrible and I'm pretty sure teams want to stay away from these type of vocal individuals who don't produce and then "demand" the team fire the coach. It's a bad look whether you like or dislike Sutter.

Did I miss something...or have we not just heard paraphrased reporting from the grapevine? I have no doubt that general sentiment is true (albeit heat of the moment frustration kinda stuff), but I do doubt that guys are actually making legit ultimatums. And they certainly haven't done so publicly.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by united

“We all hated Scotty 364 days a year. On the 365th day, we collected our Stanley Cup rings.” - Steve Shutt, fellow Hall of Famer who won five Stanley Cups under Bowman

That's a quote from over 40 ####ing years ago. If you're going to make a case for people winning with a toxic coach, you're going to need a more recent example. The game and players have changed. Old strategies don't work the same way any longer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

That's a quote from over 40 ####ing years ago. If you're going to make a case for people winning with a toxic coach, you're going to need a more recent example. The game and players have changed. Old strategies don't work the same way any longer.

Babcock?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by united

“We all hated Scotty 364 days a year. On the 365th day, we collected our Stanley Cup rings.” - Steve Shutt, fellow Hall of Famer who won five Stanley Cups under Bowman

Scotty Bowman wouldn’t last long in todays NHL, back then the coach controlled a player’s career, now days the player and agent have the control.

Someone forgot to tell Sutter this.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Babcock?

The guy who was fired for being a bully to players who last won prior to Darryl Sutter?

[Hockey_Ninja]

If the stuff that Snuffleupagus and SuperMatt18 said in this thread about Sutter being a big part of the reason why both Johnny and Tkachuk left is true. Then I honestly don't know how you can keep him around after this year

[mile]

I don't know about Gaudreau but with Tkachuk I don't think it would have mattered who the coach was, he was gone regardless.


I remember an offhand comment Tkachuk made at the start of 2021-2022 during training camp about how everyone (fans, media) in Canada makes a big deal about the smallest things. He hated playing in Canada.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The guy who was fired for being a bully to players who last won prior to Darryl Sutter?

I thought people were asking for examples of ahole coaches who won.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

That's a quote from over 40 ####ing years ago. If you're going to make a case for people winning with a toxic coach, you're going to need a more recent example. The game and players have changed. Old strategies don't work the same way any longer.

But human nature has not changed in those 40 years. (Some would argue since the dawn of time...)

Lots of people do their best work for or with people they despise. Or learn to dislike. Rock history is replete with examples. Corporate successes too.

Suck it up pussycats. I've had awful bosses. Didn't stop me for being a professional handling their financial needs. And I didn't make millions.

Edit for clarity: nothing excuses bullying or being awful to others. Nothing.

[Ferarri]

I wish Brian Burke was still here. Every time I went to a season ticket holder meeting he stressed commitment to the community and the team as well as character when it came players. If you didn’t want to be in Calgary he was going to make sure you were shipped out immediately. I guarantee you he would have been furious with comments made about players not coming back if the coach was there. He would have put them in their place about who makes management decisions as far as the coach is concerned and it was damn sure not going to be players. Also, after the team made Huberdeau the richest player in franchise history and Kadri the biggest UFA signing, you can bet he would have questioned their character and professionalism with the comments they made. It would not be a fun place for those two if Burkie ran the show.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

I wish Brian Burke was still here. Every time I went to a season ticket holder meeting he stressed commitment to the community and the team as well as character when it came players. If you didn’t want to be in Calgary he was going to make sure you were shipped out immediately. I guarantee you he would have been furious with comments made about players not coming back if the coach was there. He would have put them in their place about who makes management decisions as far as the coach is concerned and it was damn sure not going to be players. Also, after the team made Huberdeau the richest player in franchise history and Kadri the biggest UFA signing, you can bet he would have questioned their character and professionalism with the comments they made. It would not be a fun place for those two if Burkie ran the show.

The last time Burke had a coach like this was Mike Keenan who Burke said was thr first coach he actually hated. He fired his ass.

Burke wouldn't put up with these antics from Sutter.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The last time Burke had a coach like this was Mike Keenan who Burke said was thr first coach he actually hated. He fired his ass.

Burke wouldn't put up with these antics from Sutter.

He would never tolerate players telling management what to do or low character individuals who threaten his team. Also by all accounts Burke and Darryl have mutual respect for one another.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

He would never tolerate players telling management what to do or low character individuals who threaten his team. Also by all accounts Burke and Darryl have mutual respect for one another.

He had mutual respect for Keenan and Ron Wilson and booted them.

No reason why Sutter wouldn't get canned for player treatment ice time bench management not working on 3v3.

If he was showing up management like this thr players would be the least of his concern.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought people were asking for examples of ahole coaches who won.

The guy that coaches the Patriots seems to be pretty good at his job.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The last time Burke had a coach like this was Mike Keenan who Burke said was thr first coach he actually hated. He fired his ass.

Burke wouldn't put up with these antics from Sutter.

Antics?

Burke has no problems throwing players under the bus.

[Major Major]

Burke and Sutter would fit together like a glove. I'm here for it.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He had mutual respect for Keenan and Ron Wilson and booted them.

No reason why Sutter wouldn't get canned for player treatment ice time bench management not working on 3v3.

If he was showing up management like this thr players would be the least of his concern.

Wilson admitted that he saw the firing coming as the team has underperformed for a long time. Burkes hands were tied at this point.

He wouldn’t be firing coach of the year who’s had one poor season (there is even a chance this team still makes the playoffs).

[memphusk]

I think the story is maybe how soft some of these guys are.