[News] City of Calgary, CSEC, & Calgary Stampede sign agreements for new Event Centre

[ComixZone]

I've got lots of faith in CMLC. The Library is stunning, and I'm hoping for something similar from the arena. Excited to see what they can do.

I hope the inverted bowl does get used, because I have to think it would be an absolutely amazing environment to have so many seats "on top" of the ice.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Weitz

It will be designed to maximize revenue for the flames.

That's fine. There is a difference between having a firm designining to maximize revenues, and having the client be knee-deep in the design process itself.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I've got lots of faith in CMLC. The Library is stunning, and I'm hoping for something similar from the arena. Excited to see what they can do.

I hope the inverted bowl does get used, because I have to think it would be an absolutely amazing environment to have so many seats "on top" of the ice.

You mean the homeless / junkie daytime drop-in centre?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you have a link to this? In my recollections of the past two or three years of discussion, King has never committed to any specifics about the new building beyond that it would be absolutely state of the art. This has often been taken to mean it would be an inverted bowl, in large part because Roseti did the early renders, and Flames logo and gear appear in their promotional material, but as far as I know no one has publicly committed to this design for the new building.

It seems very unlikely that Rosetti would put people in Flames uniforms into their video - or that the Flames would allow that - if they weren't already the preferred choice. That said, since the city has to give its own input, it makes sense that the Flames haven't just come out and said "this is the design".

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

You mean the homeless / junkie daytime drop-in centre?

I think he means the tax-payer-funded facility which is open to all residents and visitors to the City of Calgary, regardless of socio-economic status or disabilities, etc.

In some ways, its a shame that the new arena, another (albeit partially) tax-payer-funded facility, will not be open to all residents and visitors to the City of Calgary, regardless of socio-economic status or disabilities. But I suppose not every facility can be as great as the Central Library.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I think he means the tax-payer-funded facility which is open to all residents and visitors to the City of Calgary, regardless of socio-economic status or disabilities, etc.

In some ways, its a shame that the new arena, another (albeit partially) tax-payer-funded facility, will not be open to all residents and visitors to the City of Calgary, regardless of socio-economic status or disabilities. But I suppose not every facility can be as great as the Central Library.

How much money is the library returning to the City of Calgary? The City currently says that the new arena will return $400 M over the lifetime of the arena.

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

Is there a slideshow of all the renderings? Or how do I take a look at this beauty?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Is there a slideshow of all the renderings? Or how do I take a look at this beauty?

There really isn't yet. The design hasn't been selected.

You can see the hype video for the Flames/Rosetti's preferred design here: http://theinvertedbowl.com/

It's mostly in a basketball configuration in the video since the LA Clippers arena is supposed to be the first one to use this design, but with it in legal limbo last I checked, there is a small chance Calgary could sneak in and be the first - if the design is ultimately selected.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Is there a slideshow of all the renderings? Or how do I take a look at this beauty?

There are no official renderings yet, although these were released as part of the CMLC negotiation with the Flames in the summer...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1063159565426913282

The same images and a few more also appear on the city's Victoria Park Event Centre page.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

How much money is the library returning to the City of Calgary? The City currently says that the new arena will return $400 M over the lifetime of the arena.

This is an interesting question, i suspect you asked it indignantly/ to try and make a point about public investment in the library.

I would be willing to bet that the outcome would be different than you expect.

Here's a great study done by the Indiana Business Research Centre on the economic impact of Indiana's public library system: https://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/studies...aries_2007.pdf

The executive summary notes that direct economic benefit of $2.38 resulted from every $1 of cost on libraries (not including any indirect impact, which the arena $$ return value you posted certainly does.) This figure rises substantially if you also include wages and public expenditures the libraries need to make to operate.

If proportional, that study would imply that calgary's central library will generate ~ ($245 million *$2.38/1$)= $583.1 million

Let's round down and say $500 million in direct economic value according to academics.

[GioforPM]

FWIW I think the Library is very nice looking from the outside, and it's pretty on the inside too. But I question its use of interior space. Considering the footprint, it's usable space is a lot smaller than possible, and what's used is not used that well in some areas.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is an interesting question, i suspect you asked it indignantly/ to try and make a point about public investment in the library.

I would be willing to bet that the outcome would be different than you expect.

Here's a great study done by the Indiana Business Research Centre on the economic impact of Indiana's public library system: https://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/studies...aries_2007.pdf

The executive summary notes that direct economic benefit of $2.38 resulted from every $1 of cost on libraries (not including any indirect impact, which the arena $$ return value you posted certainly does.)

If proportional, that study would imply that calgary's central library will generate ~ ($245 million *$2.38/1$)= $583.1 million

Let's round down and say $500 million in direct economic value according to academics.

That's a good view.

I think the only disclaimer should be that the study listed is looking at a library system that was more widespread and broader reaching.

In comparison to the Calgary investing the money in revamping a single central library.

Not 100% clear if you get the same return on a single library vs having a more broad and accessible network of libraries across multiple locations.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is an interesting question, i suspect you asked it indignantly/ to try and make a point about public investment in the library.

I would be willing to bet that the outcome would be different than you expect.

Here's a great study done by the Indiana Business Research Centre on the economic impact of Indiana's public library system: https://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/studies...aries_2007.pdf

The executive summary notes that direct economic benefit of $2.38 resulted from every $1 of cost on libraries (not including any indirect impact, which the arena $$ return value you posted certainly does.) This figure rises substantially if you also include wages and public expenditures the libraries need to make to operate.

If proportional, that study would imply that calgary's central library will generate ~ ($245 million *$2.38/1$)= $583.1 million

Let's round down and say $500 million in direct economic value according to academics.

If you are going to include direct/indirect impact on wages etc., you have to do that with the arena project also. How much do the teams/events spend on employee wages and costs for food/goods used. Then when you expand the wages and goods to outside facilities such as restaurants, bars, cabs etc., (which this report does to show impact on outside groups) the number would have to be in the billions. I am sure the report does not show what you thought it was going to show. So if we use your number of $2.38/1$ then the arena will provide $645.5 M on the city contribution only. You can not use the report/calculation on only projects that you choose to champion.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is an interesting question, i suspect you asked it indignantly/ to try and make a point about public investment in the library.

I would be willing to bet that the outcome would be different than you expect.

Here's a great study done by the Indiana Business Research Centre on the economic impact of Indiana's public library system: https://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/studies...aries_2007.pdf

The executive summary notes that direct economic benefit of $2.38 resulted from every $1 of cost on libraries (not including any indirect impact, which the arena $$ return value you posted certainly does.) This figure rises substantially if you also include wages and public expenditures the libraries need to make to operate.

If proportional, that study would imply that calgary's central library will generate ~ ($245 million *$2.38/1$)= $583.1 million

Let's round down and say $500 million in direct economic value according to academics.

And all of this is quite apart from the social value of having inclusive public spaces where everyone feels welcome and part of the community. As I understand it (though I am admittedly far from an expert) having these sorts also benefits the community through decreased crime and improved health (both physical and mental).

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

If you are going to include direct/indirect impact on wages etc., you have to do that with the arena project also. How much do the teams/events spend on employee wages and costs for food/goods used. Then when you expand the wages and goods to outside facilities such as restaurants, bars, cabs etc., (which this report does to show impact on outside groups) the number would have to be in the billions. I am sure the report does not show what you thought it was going to show. So if we use your number of $2.38/1$ then the arena will provide $645.5 M on the city contribution only. You can not use the report/calculation on only projects that you choose to champion.

Can both the library and arena not be important projects that produce positive social and economic benefits for Calgary? Why does it have to be one over the other?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Is there a slideshow of all the renderings? Or how do I take a look at this beauty?

Spoiler!

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It seems very unlikely that Rosetti would put people in Flames uniforms into their video - or that the Flames would allow that - if they weren't already the preferred choice.

Not necessarily the case...the firm may just done that to try to with the business. Ive done similar things before too with my clients when trying to win the contract...it just demonstrates a little extra effort and allows the client to picture themselves with your product.

Having said that, it does seem like Rosetti has the inside edge with the Flames. However the Flames are not the only stakeholder anymore, so its not just up to them.

[woob]

I'm not going to hold my breath, but I'd love to see some real citizen inclusive vision on this center, with restaurants, gathering spaces, etc built into the center itself with access into the "ticketed area" possible via these spaces. It'd be nice to have a facility that can not only be an arena but also an every day venue.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Can both the library and arena not be important projects that produce positive social and economic benefits for Calgary? Why does it have to be one over the other?

Excellent comment and thanks for making it.

I agree that both buildings are great and needed by different groups of people. We need all types of new facilities and everyone arguing for what they think is important just drives everyone apart.

[JBR]

I swear, if it doesn't have a Sbarro's.....