Westworld: New original HBO series

[GGG]

So more evidence that MIB is whitehat in this last episode. Whitehat is marrying into a family where everything is about the business. MIB runs a foundation and is on his vacation.

So I started to think about a timeline and the only thing that breaks it is the Delores flash backs to MIB when she shoots the gun.

So here is how the timeline could work

30 years ago
-- Arnold dies, creates path to consciousness for guests

Shortly Before Present -- Benard/ Delores discussions of her emerging consciousness
-- Dr. Ford figures out what Arnold left behind and develops his new naritive

Present
Dr. Ford builds maze
Whitehat enters Westworld, Delores breaks free of programming to meet whitehat on quest for maze

At some point between the whitehat timeline and the MIB timeline Delores is reset and loses her emerging consciousness.

Future -- MIB attacks Interogates/tortures Delores to get information about the maze based on the original encounter 30 years before. The pain caused by the event triggers her memories and she tells MIB
-- Other Androids start to gain consciousness along with Delores again
-- The flash backs to MIB killing her are from this timeline and not the whitehat timeline

I'm not sure if I like this timeline over the alternative timeline of MIB and whitehat both heading toward the center of the maze for a showdown in the same timeline. In the same timeline scenario MIB is a senior member of the Corporation running the park searching for what Arnold did. That's the way he gets the explosion from the head office to occur.

[Fuzz]

I'm not sure why it is so hard to take at face value, rather than trying to craft this time jumping narrative.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GGG

So more evidence that MIB is whitehat in this last episode. Whitehat is marrying into a family where everything is about the business. MIB runs a foundation and is on his vacation.

So I started to think about a timeline and the only thing that breaks it is the Delores flash backs to MIB when she shoots the gun.

So here is how the timeline could work

30 years ago
-- Arnold dies, creates path to consciousness for guests

Shortly Before Present -- Benard/ Delores discussions of her emerging consciousness
-- Dr. Ford figures out what Arnold left behind and develops his new naritive

Present
Dr. Ford builds maze
Whitehat enters Westworld, Delores breaks free of programming to meet whitehat on quest for maze

At some point between the whitehat timeline and the MIB timeline Delores is reset and loses her emerging consciousness.

Future -- MIB attacks Interogates/tortures Delores to get information about the maze based on the original encounter 30 years before. The pain caused by the event triggers her memories and she tells MIB
-- Other Androids start to gain consciousness along with Delores again
-- The flash backs to MIB killing her are from this timeline and not the whitehat timeline

I'm not sure if I like this timeline over the alternative timeline of MIB and whitehat both heading toward the center of the maze for a showdown in the same timeline. In the same timeline scenario MIB is a senior member of the Corporation running the park searching for what Arnold did. That's the way he gets the explosion from the head office to occur.

I will be PO'ed if the show tries to sell me this convoluted piece of a story line.

[gottabekd]

One interesting aspect that someone pointed out on reddit, and I felt stupid for not noticing: When Bernard asks Delores if she knows where she is, she says 'dreaming'. This interview takes place after she stumbled into William's camp, and before she wakes up in this camp. Which must mean that this conversation is happening remotely, aka she really is 'dreaming'. Her body is physically out in the park, and the interaction in the basement we see with Bernard is some sort of virtual projection.

I was wondering how Bernard can steal away this prominent host and interview her without anyone bothering him about it, but if all he's doing is a remote chat, it makes a lot more sense.

[polak]

I don't think there's any time jumping either. I think Delores is just remembering when MIB raped her in his previous trips to west world and she will eventually try to kill him some how. MIB is definitely real now that other guests recognize him.

If Ford's story about Arnold is true then Arnold has obviously left some clues for the hosts to either assist them in becoming conscious or something else. I think MIB either heard about Arnolds clues from people "in the know" or figured it out himself, probably the former as I doubt he figured out he had to scalp a specific host by coincidence.

Is the sudden emergence of the "masked men with devil horns" legend part of the new Narrative? Is Ford maybe trying to entice a revolt by the hosts? Found it kinda weird that all of the sudden as a few hosts are starting to gain consciousness that all of the sudden a ton of them seem to be aware of this legend. I guess they could've given the hosts the "legend"/"religion" in case any of them run into the park workers or remember something they shouldn't. Seems kinda pointless if you can just wipe their memory whenever (or at least, you could before some of them started to gain awareness)

Originally Posted by gottabekd

One interesting aspect that someone pointed out on reddit, and I felt stupid for not noticing: When Bernard asks Delores if she knows where she is, she says 'dreaming'. This interview takes place after she stumbled into William's camp, and before she wakes up in this camp. Which must mean that this conversation is happening remotely, aka she really is 'dreaming'. Her body is physically out in the park, and the interaction in the basement we see with Bernard is some sort of virtual projection.

I was wondering how Bernard can steal away this prominent host and interview her without anyone bothering him about it, but if all he's doing is a remote chat, it makes a lot more sense.

Yup definitely some sort of remote uplink. Maybe they have spares of Delores downstairs that are all the same connected consciousness and Bernard is able to turn them on when the version of Delores in the park is "sleeping". I'm also really starting to agree with the theory that Bernard is one of Arnolds hosts that achieved full consciousness. That might mean he's able to connect to Delores somehow without physically doing so?

I love this show.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not sure why it is so hard to take at face value, rather than trying to craft this time jumping narrative.

Because it's not physically possible for the Bernard /Delores conversations to be in the same time as white hat. Or what they'd have you believe is that they snuck in while Whitehat was sleeping took Delores out for an interview, then put her back in.

So the show clearly does not have a linear timeline.

[Yamer]

Alright, now that they have shown an actual bullet lodged and removed from a host, I admit I now want to know how that technology works.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Alright, now that they have shown an actual bullet lodged and removed from a host, I admit I now want to know how that technology works.

Reddit guys figured out from talking to host on the westworld website that the guns are able to differentiate between human and host and slows down the velocity of the bullets accordingly.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by polak

Reddit guys figured out from talking to host on the westworld website that the guns are able to differentiate between human and host and slows down the velocity of the bullets accordingly.

I thought it was that the guns fire at a lower velocity which doesnt penetrate humans but does to hosts. Either or, i thought it was cleared up when William got shot and had a welt.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GGG

Because it's not physically possible for the Bernard /Delores conversations to be in the same time as white hat. Or what they'd have you believe is that they snuck in while Whitehat was sleeping took Delores out for an interview, then put her back in.

So the show clearly does not have a linear timeline.

Even if that conversation wasn't linear, or didnt take place during her meeting with William, that does not prove or lend evidence to the W+MiB

[Fuzz]

The biggest issue with the time jump is that their was a clip showing the early park, and the hosts were obviously much more robotic. So Whitehat's park would be more primitive than the current one. And it is not.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not sure why it is so hard to take at face value, rather than trying to craft this time jumping narrative.

If JJ Abrams and Jonathan Nolan weren't two of the Executive Producers of the show, it would be easier to take it at face value.

Other than their work on big blockbuster movie franchises, they don't really make shows that are meant to be taken at face value.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by getbak

If JJ Abrams and Jonathan Nolan weren't two of the Executive Producers of the show, it would be easier to take it at face value.

Other than their work on big blockbuster movie franchises, they don't really make shows that are meant to be taken at face value.

I don't think he mean every aspect of the show, just the timeline theories.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I don't think he mean every aspect of the show, just the timeline theories.

Again, I'd point you towards the previous works of Abrams and Nolan. Non-linear storytelling is a big part of their styles.

[Finger Cookin]

I think if there were truly multiple timelines being presented in the show, it would be more overt. My two cents.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by getbak

Again, I'd point you towards the previous works of Abrams and Nolan. Non-linear storytelling is a big part of their styles.

Ok. I think he meant that specific poster's timeline theory.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I think if there were truly multiple timelines being presented in the show, it would be more overt. My two cents.

Not only that but other than the wow factor, it really begs the question of why?

I mean honestly, it would make a great twist, but what would it have accomplished? What purpose would it serve to tell us the story that way?

On the other hand some different theories make sense. Dreams, gods, sentient beings, memory, humanity. All those themes can be explored if one of the androids "wakes up" or even if a character has beat the maze and is now living amongst the normal humans, unbeknownst to them. Bernard is a popular choice for this.

But the timeline thing, other than being shocking, just doesn't resonate so far. And like you say, until there is a more overt allusion to it, I'm not ready to bite on that one just yet.

[Alpine Fisher]

I really dislike that "Narciste" guy.

[GGG]

I think as a viewer we are put in the position of the Androids who don't have any anchor in time and exist and relive only the same few weeks. So as a viewer the shows timeline is left intentionally ambiguous. I'm not not necessarily sure I agree with Whitehat / MIB but that opens up because the timelines aren't clear.

The MIB could be just the guy from Delos who Ford talks about with smoking lady which would explain his access to the control room for effects. He having bought the park and wanting to understand it. However the creation of the Maze requiring massive earth moving and construction needs to have happened before the Delores/Whitehat timeline and before the MIB timeline regardless of where those two timelines are in relation to each other

The backstory of the MIB has to be significant to the story or it makes no sense to conceal it and only provide minor detailis. Same with Whitehat and black hats references to the company.

[Fuzz]

Where was it indicated the earth moving going on is constructing the maze?