Charging for quotes & estimates

[BsFaninCGY]

Is this a new thing? I've had two instances in the last few months where I needed to bring in a professional to work on my house. One was for replacing a hot water boiler, the second - today - I need someone to look at a toilet that isn't draining water from the bowl well.

Both times when calling around for quotes I get met with 'we quote when we're on site. On site visits cost $xx.xx'. Basically, we have no possible idea how much it could possibly cost to replace a hot water tank. We need to see it. Then we can charge whatever we want because we're there, you paid for us to be there, and you might as well go through with it.

I feel this is an incredibly scummy way to do business. I'm self employed and have a rate sheet I devised that will cover 99% of the jobs I will get. Want to hire me? I give a quote, we go from there. Why are these trades any different? Is this the way things are going or is just select companies? Or am I totally out of whack to think they should know a basic cost to plunge a toilet?

/rant. Know any good plumbers?

[corporatejay]

I think it's pretty reasonable depending on the business. Often times they will credit the cost of the onsite diagnosis to the total cost of the repair.

It is time out of their day to come and assess the situation, they should be compensated.

my 2 cents.

[BsFaninCGY]

But shouldn't they know a general cost/estimate before hand? It's not like I'm asking for a bathroom reno. I don't even want them to come out. I want a general estimate of the cost to plunge a toilet.

[KTrain]

We've had this as well and I actually understand where they're coming from. The time it takes for them to take your call, drive to you home, review the problem, give you a quote and then wait for you to get other quotes is a big commitment of time on their part. They're also likely burned all the time by tire-kickers or people just looking to get a number so they can get the lowest.

They should be telling you the minimum for coming out to look at the problem though.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by BsFaninCGY

But shouldn't they know a general cost/estimate before hand? It's not like I'm asking for a bathroom reno. I don't even want them to come out. I want a general estimate of the cost to plunge a toilet.

If you explain it to them they probably will give you what you want. If you call and say "what will it cost to do this, this, and this" they can likely give you a rough cost for it. If you can't do that then what do you expect?

But welcome to the world of tire kickers. When it comes to contracting and such you can't spend your day giving people quotes for free or else you will never make any money.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by KTrain

...The time it takes for them to take your call, drive to you home, review the problem, give you a quote and then wait for you to get other quotes is a big commitment of time on their part. They're also likely burned all the time by tire-kickers or people just looking to get a number so they can get the lowest. ...

This is exactly how they explain it and it's a complete BS. There must be some effort on the part of a contractor to earn the job. Estimating is part of that effort. Millions of contractors around the world prepare tender bids and get nothing for it when someone else wins the tender. If a contractor can't tell you on the phone what it would cost to replace a 40-gal hot water tank, I would not even bother inviting them over to look at it. The proper answer should be: "The 40-gal tank cost is $800, installation will cost $500 to $700 depending on your piping layout , time to get it in/out and accessibility, disposal cost is $80 etc." This is REALLY not rocket science. They do want you on the hook for the estimate costs, so that people don't feel like wasting the estimating fee and hire them right there.

Major appliance repair companies are the worst for this abhorrent practice, btw.

[BsFaninCGY]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If you explain it to them they probably will give you what you want. If you call and say "what will it cost to do this, this, and this" they can likely give you a rough cost for it. If you can't do that then what do you expect?

But welcome to the world of tire kickers. When it comes to contracting and such you can't spend your day giving people quotes for free or else you will never make any money.

I disagree with this completely. In fact, I believe it's the opposite. If I charged for quoting I would never work. Can you imagine if Telus or Bell charged you before they told you the cost of your cell plan? Disguised it as 'they need to check your calling and text habits so they know what plan to put you on'? It would never fly.

Don't want tire kickers? Put your rates online. Bam, no more kickers and you can focus on working and pleasing your clients.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by BsFaninCGY

I disagree with this completely. In fact, I believe it's the opposite. If I charged for quoting I would never work. Can you imagine if Telus or Bell charged you before they told you the cost of your cell plan? Disguised it as 'they need to check your calling and text habits so they know what plan to put you on'? It would never fly.

Don't want tire kickers? Put your rates online. Bam, no more kickers and you can focus on working and pleasing your clients.

Different industries are different.

I'm fully assuming you couldn't give someone all the info they needed and they had to come look to give you a quote. A lot of smaller guys in the residential work work this way.

Of course it doesn't work everywhere. I don't charge for quotes unless you are a consistent tire kicker.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Huh. I didn't know this was a thing. I was thinking about getting a quote for having a deck built. I wonder if this practice extends to that kind of job.

You'd think at worst you could just send a few pictures to give them the idea of what you're asking for and they could say "barring anything unexpected, in the range of $X to $Y".

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

This is exactly how they explain it and it's a complete BS. There must be some effort on the part of the contractor to earn the job. Estimating is part of this effort. Millions of contractors around the world prepare tender bids and get nothing for it when someone else wins the tender. If a contractor can't tell you on the phone what it would cost to replace a 40-gal hot water tank, I would not even bother inviting them over to look at it. The proper answer should be: "The 40-gal tank cost is $800, installation will cost $500 to $700 depending on your piping layout and accessibility, disposal cost is $80 etc." This is REALLY not rocket science. They do want you on the hook for the estimate costs, so that people don't feel like wasting the estimating fee.

Major appliance repair companies are the worst for this abhorrent practice, btw.

I definitely agree about something like a new hot water tank quote.

But for a pugged toilet? There's are a lot more variables for something like that. They should provide a base quote for taking a look but they really won't know unless they come out and see it.

Small companies can't afford to write-off 2 hours in a day for someone just looking for the lowest price.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I definitely agree about something like a new hot water tank quote.

But for a pugged toilet? There's are a lot more variables for something like that. They should provide a base quote for taking a look but they really won't know unless they come out and see it.

Small companies can't afford to write-off 2 hours in a day for someone just looking for the lowest price.

And that's a part of the game of being an independent contractor. If someone can do the same job cheaper, you will lose it. Will they do it worse or better - that's for a contractor to prove through reputation, explanation, marketing etc. Estimating the time to unplug a toilet should be based on plumber's experience unplugging thousands of toilets. One hour of travel time $100, one hour on site – $200. That's it. If the obstruction is in the service connection – there will be extra charges to snake it; why should there be any issue in saying that upfront? I mean, seriously, this is not that difficult. Contractors bid on billion dollar jobs that are way more complicated than a cleaning a piece of sh..t from the sewer pipe.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

And that's a part of the game of being an independent contractor. If someone can do the same job cheaper, you will lose it. Will they do it worse or better - that's for a contractor to prove through reputation, explanation, marketing etc. Estimating the time to unplug a toilet should be based on plumber's experience unplugging thousands of toilets. One hour of travel time $100, one hour on site – $200. That's it. If the obstruction is in the service connection – there will be extra charges to snake it. I mean, seriously, this is not that difficult. Contractors bid on billion dollar jobs that are way more complicated than a cleaning a piece of sh$t from the sewer pipe.

So go with someone else then?

Chances are these people who are charging you for a quote are busy enough they don't need your work.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So go with someone else then?
Chances are these people who are charging you for a quote are busy enough they don't need your work.

Yes, absolutely. It's that or they are trying to suck you into doing the work with them anyway. Regardless, either reason is good enough to look elsewhere.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

And that's a part of the game of being an independent contractor. If someone can do the same job cheaper, you will lose it. Will they do it worse or better - that's for a contractor to prove through reputation, explanation, marketing etc. Estimating the time to unplug a toilet should be based on plumber's experience unplugging thousands of toilets. One hour of travel time $100, one hour on site – $200. That's it. If the obstruction is in the service connection – there will be extra charges to snake it. I mean, seriously, this is not that difficult. Contractors bid on billion dollar jobs that are way more complicated than a cleaning a piece of sh$t from the sewer pipe.

I agree that they should be able to tell you the charge up front to take a look but they can't guarantee a price to fix the problem without looking at it. I don't care how much experience you have. Until you're on site you don't know if some idiot kid flushed a toy down the toilet or they have service connection issue. Most people calling a plumber/contractor aren't able to accurately convey what the problem is just by describing it on the phone.

They have every right to ask for compensation to come to your house to look at it. That's over and above what it will cost to actually fix it.

The contractors bidding on billion dollar jobs have people whose only job is to write proposals/estimates. Solo contractors or small companies don't have those resources.

It's not a game if you're wasting people's time.

[BsFaninCGY]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So go with someone else then?

Chances are these people who are charging you for a quote are busy enough they don't need your work.

This is likely very true. I know I've quoted very high to try and lose jobs before, but at least I quoted.

And I guess one thing I didn't mention in the original post was that the person I was talking to on the phone was trying very hard to book me an appointment without mentioning the 'dispatch fee'. She tried 3 times to set me in on a date before I got it out of her that there was a fee involved for quoting. That's sleazy.

I'm not trying to change an industry or anything. It just surprised me the first time, and bothered me the second time. I was hoping there might be a good reason why it's done, but as far as I'm concerned there's not. My experience so far shows only the bigger companies do it and they probably can because they're at the top of HomeStars etc. It's shady and should be called out.

[BsFaninCGY]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I agree that they should be able to tell you the charge up front to take a look but they can't guarantee a price to fix the problem without looking at it. I don't care how much experience you have. Until you're on site you don't know if some idiot kid flushed a toy down the toilet or they have service connection issue. Most people calling a plumber/contractor aren't able to accurately convey what the problem is just by describing it on the phone.

They have every right to ask for compensation to come to your house to look at it. That's over and above what it will cost to actually fix it.

The contractors bidding on billion dollar jobs have people whose only job is to write proposals/estimates. Solo contractors or small companies don't have those resources.

It's not a game if you're wasting people's time.

That's why the word estimate is in the title of this thread. Estimate me the cost. Let me know how it could increase. I'll compare and make my choice. Not invite someone over who now can quote whatever they like. My hot water tank was so ridiculously over priced but I was out of town and had to try and take care of it while working. They had us over a barrel and took full advantage.

[btimbit]

A few months ago I was thinking about how wasteful everyone is these days and how I remembered growing up we didn't just throw stuff away when it broke, we'd get it repaired. So when my dishwasher broke, I called a repair guy.

$75 for a guy to come out, look at it for 30 seconds, and suggest I just buy a new one anyway.

[Shazam]

Was it Clearview Plumbing you contacted? They're pure scum.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Huh. I didn't know this was a thing. I was thinking about getting a quote for having a deck built. I wonder if this practice extends to that kind of job.

You'd think at worst you could just send a few pictures to give them the idea of what you're asking for and they could say "barring anything unexpected, in the range of $X to $Y".

That’s not a quote though. That’s a “you can’t hold me to this” budget estimate.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Huh. I didn't know this was a thing. I was thinking about getting a quote for having a deck built. I wonder if this practice extends to that kind of job.

You'd think at worst you could just send a few pictures to give them the idea of what you're asking for and they could say "barring anything unexpected, in the range of $X to $Y".

I wasn't aware of this being a thing too. I put in new windows a few years ago, got quotes from three companies, quotes were free. I had to get a new roof last year. I got quotes from 5 companies and once again, quotes were free.

This is down in Lethbridge where time to travel to prospective client willbe much quicker than a large city like Calgary.