Respectfully disagree with your premise here.
While it could be argued that US military dominance peaked shortly after WWII, their cultural reach grew massively through the last half of the 20th century until it dominated every corner of the globe. American brands are universal and the promise of the American Dream burns brightly.
As for historical empires, yes I use the term local as opposed to global which is exactly what America is. Your examples citing large geographical areas are fine but bear in mind that the population and population density of the areas in question were very small compared to today.
At the end of the Cold war America had (and still has) military bases on every continent and naval power with nuclear capability that can reach every corner of the globe basically uncontested. China and Russia are powerful actors in their own right, but they have virtually no reach beyond their local spheres. Japan is a US vassal state. Israel is a nuclear-armed extension of US power into the middle east, the geographical centre of the globe.
The successful takeover of Iraq and the installation of American-backed multinational oil companies into some of the world's largest conventional oil reserves is another power play. If they manage to crush Iran (certainly the plan) they will have basically locked up the middle east.
Objectively, there has never been a nation as great and powerful (and terrible) as the United States.
Arguably? Maybe. Objectively? That's ridiculous.
The British Empire reached every continent and covered almost a quarter of the world's population and a fifth of its landmass, and that's just internally. The Mongolian Empire also covered about 25% of the worlds population, as did the Roman Empire, and again, those are just internal numbers. All of them also had a influence in trade and diplomacy around them. The Brits and Mongols were also actively kingmaking outside their borders.
At the height of the cold war, Americans were legitimately worried of growing Japanese influence in their own country to such an extent that Americans were afraid that they might get culturally colonized (famously portrayed in Blade Runner for example). How do you square that with "vassal state"?
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The British Empire reached every continent and covered almost a quarter of the world's population and a fifth of its landmass, and that's just internally. The Mongolian Empire also covered about 25% of the worlds population, as did the Roman Empire, and again, those are just internal numbers. All of them also had a influence in trade and diplomacy around them. The Brits and Mongols were also actively kingmaking outside their borders.
At the height of the cold war, Americans were legitimately worried of growing Japanese influence in their own country to such an extent that Americans were afraid that they might get culturally colonized (famously portrayed in Blade Runner for example). How do you square that with "vassal state"?
I edited to remove "Objectively".
Fair points made, yet I still remain in support of my position.
I will however look deeper into some of the historical empires under discussion.
You're debating an issue on the internet; how dare you rethink your position based on new information. You're supposed to dig in and scream regardless of new facts.
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Even the British empire never had the reach or power of the American Empire. By any measure. As for the ancient empires, they were local empires.
Not sure how they are comparable in any way.
The Romans conquered the whole of Europe to the Rhine river, Britannia, as far as modern day Turkey to the south. Furthermore they ruled the Middle East and a good part of Western Asia. You could argue that the modern day Popes are the remnants of an Empire that still exists today.
How is that local?
Last edited by Flamenspiel; 07-05-2020 at 05:53 PM.
The Romans conquered the whole of Europe to the Rhine River and modern day Turkey to the south and Britain. Furthermore they ruled the Middle East and a good part of Western Asia. You could argue that the modern day Popes are the remnants of the Empire.
Neither has the US ever been, at best it has dominated Central and even then the stinkin' commies had a toe hold.
The US has never ever dominated the globe, socialism has always held greater sway across the globe
Again, disagree. I believe that the US dominates the globe right now. They hold a technological advantage over all but a couple of nations who would be their equal at best. Military power does not bear discussion. Culturally they are dominant.
Socialism will always be popular, but has it ever gotten anywhere when it comes to hegemony?
Nice goalpost move, at least you learned something.
No idea what you mean. I was consistent in my use of the term local empire from the beginning of my arguement to mean not a global empire. I was swayed towards the British Empire being global or very close to it, but I never moved any goalposts.
Even the British empire never had the reach or power of the American Empire. By any measure. As for the ancient empires, they were local empires.
Not sure how they are comparable in any way.
That’s true and given the technology and global development advances over the centuries not surprising. The US is the most powerful nation ever in absolute terms. Most successful is more subjective. The others mentioned previously like Rome were absolutely dominant relative to their time and the limits of technology and development.
But to support your point, as much as we like to piss on the US for any number of reasons valid and otherwise it is truly a remarkable country filled with many many remarkable people. I just don’t go for the shining beacon stuff.
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And the currency wouldn't be the world default currency if they weren't the dominant nation. One follows the other.
Yeah but you've got the order wrong. In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
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Even the British empire never had the reach or power of the American Empire. By any measure. As for the ancient empires, they were local empires.
Not sure how they are comparable in any way.
Just some thoughts on this as I think your view of America is built on the idealistic view American propaganda has built up over the years.
The Americans were isolationists until WWII. They entered both world wars late because of their isolationist beliefs. What made the US an economic power was them profiteering from the international war effort prior to joining. Post WWII was when the United States became the power they are and that was a result of the power vacuum in Europe. The cold war with the Soviets allowed the US to build military and economic alliances and spread their influence because so many nations were left so weak. This was ultimately because of good leadership from the United States, and because they were really the last nation standing, thanks to "the bomb.". But make no mistake, that position was established out of a series of cooperative efforts and agreements that would leave the US in a leadership position while the other nations rebuilt.
What we have seen is an attempt to expand the American Empire beyond the shores of the US, and her allies. This has has some success and plenty more failures. The US has attempted to make forays into the middle east and have failed spectacularly. They have attempted to extend their reach into Latin and South America and had at best mixed results. It is pretty easy to look at those regions and recognize they have pretty much rejected American hegemony. The US has very little influence in Africa, and Asia is also a mixed bag. To suggest the United States has has global control or absolute influence like some of the other empires is not accurate in any shape or form.
The best argument that can be made for global access is the influence of American culture through the arts and entertainment. Music and movies have been the United States' greatest export and helped shape minds and win hearts. These industries were powerful in spreading the American dream and belief that the United States was that shining light on a hill. But that was pre-9/11. Since 9/11 the United States has turned into the opposite of what those industries have long projected. The economic collapse greatly stunted the movie industry's reach and efficacy. As a result control of those industries fractured and message management disappeared. The messages coming from those industries have actually done more damage to the projection of a positive image of America than can be imagined. The anti-American media campaign actually started internally by the music and film industries.
This is the most interesting thing to watch about what is happening right now. America is dying from the inside. The "empire" they believed they could build is rotting to the core. They have been devoid of leadership since the end of the Vietnam era. Reagan was a hardass on the Soviets but added so much to the credit card at unmanageable interest rates that the country may never recover. They continued an incredible expansion of their perceived empire through military and economic means, but the successive economic collapses and continual spending on the credit card has actually weakened the United States.
The United States is a house of cards. Economically, culturally, and systemically. We are seeing all of the cards begin to buckle and all it will take is one and the whole mess falls in upon itself. The institutions that made America great are now a punch line in a Trump speech as years of corruption and divisive politics have weakened or destroyed the foundations of governance. The markets are for the top .1% and everyone else is a pawn/hostage to the system. The system is not sustainable. Culturally we are seeing what America is, and it is not pretty. This is a country that was built on racism and subjugation. Now that the demographics have shifted America will have to evolve or die. Culturally this may not be possible.
The American military is impressive, but it is so large and bloated that it is virtually impossible to support. If there was a global conflict the country would bankrupt itself in trying to keep the military machine running. Without the network of allies the United States military would fall quickly just because of the logistics of keeping that behemoth supplied.
This is the thing missing from the discussion. America is only as strong as it allies. Without alliances the effective reach and ability to maintain the military ceases. This is what has brought every previous empire to its knees and the United States is no different. With Trump in office the alliances that have made America great are being destroyed. Those alliances that allowed for expansion and influence are on the shakiest of ground and the failure of one card may cause the whole house to collapse.
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Just when America is finally Great Again, Kanye West throws his hat in the ring, what an absolute #### show our neighbours have going on. #2020VISION 🙄
Just when America is finally Great Again, Kanye West throws his hat in the ring, what an absolute #### show our neighbours have going on. #2020VISION 🙄
Not that the US is the pillar of stability right now, but a habitual attention seeker seeking attention really doesn't make a statement about the country.
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