I mean Canada hasn't even elected the NDP, Bernie's obvious Canadian stand in. People will always choose money over all else, and Bernie/NDP scares people that they will cause businesses to flee. Then again if the NDP won at least they'd be able to do something. Even if Bernie somehow wins he'll be fillibustered to death, lose the midterms, and be ousted in four years having accomplished nothing.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I think people are overestimating the economy. It was doing pretty much just as well in 2016 and that didn't stop voters from electing someone like Trump. A high stock market doesn't mean a whole lot when almost all of the growth goes into the pockets of the already wealthy. Wage growth is still quite low by historical standards, particularly when you consider we're in a 10+ year bull market.
Hell, Canada currently has as low of an unemployment rate as it has had in the last 45 years and the TSX is at an all time high, but is anyone going to argue that the economy is so good that it makes the government bullet proof?
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I mean Canada hasn't even elected the NDP, Bernie's obvious Canadian stand in. People will always choose money over all else, and Bernie/NDP scares people that they will cause businesses to flee. Then again if the NDP won at least they'd be able to do something. Even if Bernie somehow wins he'll be fillibustered to death, lose the midterms, and be ousted in four years having accomplished nothing.
Most of Bernie's ideas are closer to Liberal or European centrist policy than NDP, but yes I understand the analogy to our political system. I think the NDP did have a shot at one point, but sadly the charismatic leader here got cancer and his successors have basically torpedoed their own chances by being too generally unlikable and taken the party even further left than Layton.
Massive reforms in the US political system are needed to prevent the level of corruption that the US is currently experiencing. No moderate middle of the road Democrat is going to make the type of structural changes needed to prevent another demagogue like Trump from rising to power. Is that not important to Americans as well?
I just don't see how Bernie is gonna change things in a world you need 60 senate votes to do anything of consequence. Those bluedogs like Manchin and Doug Jones are not gonna be lining up to support most of his measures, because they are DOA if they do. And there aren't enough lefties out there that can win because Massachusetts and California are only 4% of the senate. America's problems are impossible to change really, barring a switch to a Westminster system. But as long as Idaho has the same % of senate votes as California, despite being a speck of hair on California's ass from an economic/population standpoint (nevermind DC having zero representation despite being a massive economic engine), how can things change?
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The easiest way to run against Bernie is "he's openly anti-business at a time where the economy is strong". I think Bernie's only real shot is the economy collapsing, but if it doesn't and he's a nominee, I suspect it ends even more lopsided than when Hillary lost. Truth be told the DNC should be begging Michelle to get in, no doubt she wins in a walk. But the Dems have only losers I think. Pete might be their best shot now amazingly enough.
There's no way Buttigeig can win. The more stores like this start coming out, the less chance he has of getting any of the minority vote, which is crucial to defeat Trump
If as you say Americas problems are too big to overcome, then it's basically people should just resign themselves to a total corruption of the US Democracy and eventually live under a dictatorship under some future President for life. Oligarchs will take over and all US citizens will become indentured serfs with the US military running amok in yet another war. Why bother voting at all?
An outside chance of a change is better than no chance. There needs to be more anger and activism on the part US citizens and a greater push to elect more enough senators as the first part to proper reform... If people in the US don't care enough, then the US and it's institutions are pretty much already done for... just a matter of when.
I don't understand why social spending is so scary for Americans and funding of the magnitudes more spent on the military, and welfare for corporate rich seem to be perfectly acceptable?
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There's pretty much no way any Dem can win. How badly ####ing run as a party do you have to be to lose to an openly corrupt, can't even get his spray tan right dementia case?
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If as you say Americas problems are too big to overcome, then it's basically people should just resign themselves to a total corruption of the US Democracy and eventually live under a dictatorship under some future President for life. Oligarchs will take over and all US citizens will become indentured serfs with the US military running amok in yet another war. Why bother voting at all?
An outside chance of a change is better than no chance. There needs to be more anger and activism on the part US citizens and a greater push to elect more enough senators as the first part to proper reform... If people in the US don't care enough, then the US and it's institutions are pretty much already done for... just a matter of when.
I don't understand why social spending is so scary for Americans and funding of the magnitudes more spent on the military, and welfare for corporate rich seem to be perfectly acceptable?
It's a hostage situation in some ways. But lots of jobs because of those things. People would rather be employed in a corrupt society than jobless in a "straight" society.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I don't understand why social spending is so scary for Americans and funding of the magnitudes more spent on the military, and welfare for corporate rich seem to be perfectly acceptable?
The sense I get, and I have nothing to go off of other than what I've observed, is the the average American likes to cheer on their side to win. All the "USA! USA! USA!" chants in sports also bleeds into how they view things like their military and their economy. As long as they're top dog, they seem ok to pour billions and billions into military spending and economic bailouts to keep it that way. But the average American also cling onto this "American dream" where as long as you you work hard and earn your money, you pay for your own way, and thus they are really opposed to fund the "greater good" in helping others that they deem didn't work as hard as them. So they are ok with things that prop up their self image (as a country), but are really against things that they feel they are unfairly on the hook for (ie. public healthcare).
Just my two cents. I could be way out to lunch with how I think, as I've never been an American.
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I don't understand the hate for Sanders from Americans when most of his ideas are very mainstream in Canada.
Ultimately, Americans have a different culture and different values from Canadians. Outside of a few coastal pockets, they have never shown the willingness to pay taxes and rely on public services to the levels Canadians do. Sanders' program (assuming it would even be passed by congress and the Senate) would require substantial increase in taxes, and only 25 per cent of Americans are willing to pay higher taxes for more government services. That's the culture.
And American is a patriotic country. Corbyn's faceplant in the UK showed that outside of the progressive left, most voters - especially the working class - are unabashedly patriotic, and want a leader who's a passionate booster of their country and its history. Given his history, Republicans won't have any difficulty painting Sanders as an America-hating ivory tower lefty if he wins the nomination.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Ultimately, Americans have a different culture and different values from Canadians. Outside of a few coastal pockets, they have never shown the willingness to pay taxes and rely on public services to the levels Canadians do. Sanders' program (assuming it would even be passed by congress and the Senate) would require substantial increase in taxes, and only 25 per cent of Americans are willing to pay higher taxes for more government services. That's the culture.
And American is a patriotic country. Corbyn's faceplant in the UK showed that outside of the progressive left, most voters - especially the working class - are unabashedly patriotic, and want a leader who's a passionate booster of their country and its history. Given his history, Republicans won't have any difficulty painting Sanders as an America-hating ivory tower lefty if he wins the nomination.
I would argue that what you describe as "patriotism" here is actually egoism and narcissism.
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Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
There's pretty much no way any Dem can win. How badly ####ing run as a party do you have to be to lose to an openly corrupt, can't even get his spray tan right dementia case?
There was a deluge of extenuating circumstances which led to Hillary's loss in 2016. I think a competent candidate like Yang would wipe the floor with Trump in a general election.
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Last edited by Mathgod; 02-10-2020 at 04:52 PM.
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Ultimately, Americans have a different culture and different values from Canadians. Outside of a few coastal pockets, they have never shown the willingness to pay taxes and rely on public services to the levels Canadians do. Sanders' program (assuming it would even be passed by congress and the Senate) would require substantial increase in taxes, and only 25 per cent of Americans are willing to pay higher taxes for more government services. That's the culture.
And American is a patriotic country. Corbyn's faceplant in the UK showed that outside of the progressive left, most voters - especially the working class - are unabashedly patriotic, and want a leader who's a passionate booster of their country and its history. Given his history, Republicans won't have any difficulty painting Sanders as an America-hating ivory tower lefty if he wins the nomination.
I think that might be an oversimplification and mis-characterization of the UK Brexit issue. Corbyn himself was also racist and reviled as a candidate. Plus his whole lets not take either side but take no position at all but torpedoed his chances into an embarrassing defeat. UK was polling very pretty split on having for and against Brexit and it was a horrible miscalculation to try to play the centre in an election that was about picking a side. Boris kept his messaging simple and his position clear... if there is any take away from this it's that there is a huge mass of people that need a clear concrete message to rally around.
The lesson is from the UK is not patriotism... its more making sure you are clear on your stance.
This is why Biden as a candidate is a horrible idea. Sanders at least has a simple consistent message the masses can get behind based on polling, corporate Democrats have been muddying the waters on this. He's also free of scandal. How many times has Biden put his own foot in his mouth at this point?
Also pet peeve, patriotism and nationalism are vastly different things. A Patriot would be outraged at the attack on the institution of the US, a Nationalist would not.
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There was a deluge of extenuating circumstances which led to Hillary's loss in 2016. I think a competent candidate like Yang would wipe the floor with Trump in a general election.
Yang is the only candidate who isn't demonizing lifelong Republicans or people who voted for Trump in 2016 and as a result, he's the one Democrat that Republicans would vote for based on polls. Any other candidate is just going to result in a continued divisity in the US. It's too bad though, he's polling way too low right now, so unless he surprises the world and finishes Top 3 tomorrow, I think he drops out afterwards.
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Ultimately, Americans have a different culture and different values from Canadians. Outside of a few coastal pockets, they have never shown the willingness to pay taxes and rely on public services to the levels Canadians do. Sanders' program (assuming it would even be passed by congress and the Senate) would require substantial increase in taxes, and only 25 per cent of Americans are willing to pay higher taxes for more government services. That's the culture.
And American is a patriotic country. Corbyn's faceplant in the UK showed that outside of the progressive left, most voters - especially the working class - are unabashedly patriotic, and want a leader who's a passionate booster of their country and its history. Given his history, Republicans won't have any difficulty painting Sanders as an America-hating ivory tower lefty if he wins the nomination.
Long winded way of saying cheap, selfish, dumb and racist.
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The only way the states will embrace a more Canadian European view of health care and social services is, I suspect one state at a time, why Obama didn't just offer the states the option of signing on for state based universal healthcare, picking off the big blue states, New York, Cali, Washington Oregon etc one at a time but allowing the inbred trailer dwellers theit freedom from guberment interference in their God given right to die an agonising death from chewing 'baccy induced mouth cancer I don't know.
The problem with Sanders is really Corbyn x10, Corbyn was a mediocre debater at best regardless of his message, he lacked charisma and was none to quick to get shots in, Bernie is massively worse, he speaks like he has a mouth full of marbles he is trying to keep in his mouth, he doesn't smile or crack jokes he doggedly hammers home his points hunched over the podium oblivious of the pugilistic aspects of any debate.
Ironically Trump is almost as bad the other way, all he does is try to fight and a moderately quick witted charismatic speaker could have him for breakfast, for reasons best know to the Dem's they seem unable to find one of those though.
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
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Originally Posted by activeStick
Yang is the only candidate who isn't demonizing lifelong Republicans or people who voted for Trump in 2016 and as a result, he's the one Democrat that Republicans would vote for based on polls. Any other candidate is just going to result in a continued divisity in the US. It's too bad though, he's polling way too low right now, so unless he surprises the world and finishes Top 3 tomorrow, I think he drops out afterwards.
No Republican is voting for any Democrat. Have you missed like... the past twenty-five years down there?
Sanders is surging in Quinnipac/Ipsos national polls. Now has a 9 point lead on Biden. He also leads among all of the Democratic candidates against Trump at +18% in a potential Presidential election matchup. Some posters might be listening too much to the corporate messaging or allowing their own personal preferences to under-estimating his electability. This has not been the first set of polls that have shown this.
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Bernie Sanders has surged to the top of a new national poll of Democratic candidates, as support for Joe Biden has tumbled.
On the eve of the New Hampshire primary, the second opportunity for people to actually cast a vote rather simply be questioned by pollsters, the Quinnipiac University poll put the veteran Vermont senator on 25 points.
At the same time, the poll, conducted after Mr Biden’s poor fourth place showing in Iowa, had the former vice president down 9 points to 17.
Michael Bloomberg, the former New York mayor who has spent millions of dollars of his own money, stormed to third place, ahead of Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg.
“Biden scrambles to bounce back in frigid New Hampshire after an icy slide to 17 percent, his lowest national number,” said Quinnipiac University poll analyst, Tim Malloy.
Interesting Politico article suggesting that swing voters do not affect election outcomes anywhere as much as voter turnout.
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Bitecofer took this insight and mapped it across the country. As she sees it, it isn’t quite right to refer to a Democratic or Republican “base.” Rather, there are Democratic and Republican coalitions, the first made of people of color, college-educated whites and people in metropolitan areas; the second, mostly noncollege whites, with a smattering of religious-minded voters, financiers and people in business, largely in rural and exurban counties.
“In the polarized era, the outcome isn’t really about the candidates. What matters is what percentage of the electorate is Republican and Republican leaners, and what percentage is Democratic and Democratic leaners, and how they get activated,” she said.
Accordingly, she believed that whom the Democrats nominated didn’t matter much, and while the rest of the country focused on the districts where Hillary Clinton defeated Trump, she thought those were already mostly in the bag, and so focused instead on the 20 or so districts where Trump performed worse than Mitt Romney had in 2012. Those were places with latent Democratic possibility, and had the national party recognized it earlier, they could have flipped even more seats.
