Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Ivrnet

View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 270 65.85%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 106 25.85%
Not sure 22 5.37%
Climate change is a hoax 12 2.93%
Voters: 410. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-05-2019, 12:16 PM   #581
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102

Quote:
The most effective way to fight global warming is to plant lots of trees, a trillion of them, maybe more, according to a new study.

Swiss scientists also say that even with existing cities and farmland, there's enough space for new trees to cover nine million square kilometres, roughly the size of the United States.

Their report is in Thursday's edition of the journal Science.

The study calculated that over the decades, those new trees could suck up nearly 750 billion tonnes of heat-trapping carbon dioxide from the atmosphere — about as much carbon pollution as humans have spewed in the past 25 years.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Azure For This Useful Post:
Old 07-05-2019, 01:15 PM   #582
Mass_nerder
Franchise Player
 
Mass_nerder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102
Plus it makes prefabbed, modular construction so much easier and can drastically reduce the amount of construction waste.
Additionally, engineered wood (CLT, glulam etc...) has similar depth/span characteristics as steel, and can be used to replace traditional concrete cores.
It's legitimately one of the most exciting construction technologies right now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
Mass_nerder is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mass_nerder For This Useful Post:
Old 07-05-2019, 01:40 PM   #583
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

I think they are selling themselves short with just wanting to plant a trillion trees. I think double that should be the goal once they start looking at other less appealing areas, and better forest management.

At the end of the day CLT allows you to take those trees and extend their lifespan in terms of sequestering carbon for much longer. Potentially decades longer. Suddenly you have 25% more trees actively sucking carbon or simply storing it without needing more area to actually plant the trees.

Bizarre that we aren't throwing money at this like a madman.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Azure For This Useful Post:
Old 07-05-2019, 01:50 PM   #584
Makarov
#1 Goaltender
 
Makarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102
This is a really cool idea. I'd be interested to know the cost of planting a trillion trees (including land acquisition etc.). I'm guessing it is substantial (ie, measured in trillions of dollars).
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 01:55 PM   #585
Mass_nerder
Franchise Player
 
Mass_nerder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
This is a really cool idea. I'd be interested to know the cost of planting a trillion trees (including land acquisition etc.). I'm guessing it is substantial (ie, measured in trillions of dollars).
I would imagine, in Canada at least, most of the land needed would be crown land (only 11% of Canada's land is privately owned, with 41% federal crown land and 48% provincial crown land) , so there probably wouldn't be a substantial cost for land acquisition.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
Mass_nerder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 01:59 PM   #586
GoinAllTheWay
Franchise Player
 
GoinAllTheWay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Not sure
Exp:
Default

Urban forests are just about the coolest things. I wish the city planted them everywhere they could. And it looks a hell of a lot better than most of the "art" the city as paid millions for. Use that money to buy trees instead.
GoinAllTheWay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GoinAllTheWay For This Useful Post:
Old 07-05-2019, 01:59 PM   #587
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

I remember from my days in Alberta that the government provided saplings free of charge to private land owners who would then plant them.

There are many ways of doing it.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Azure For This Useful Post:
Old 07-05-2019, 02:00 PM   #588
GoinAllTheWay
Franchise Player
 
GoinAllTheWay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Not sure
Exp:
Default

Agreed. It's cheap and easy to do. Everyone can help with a project like this. I'd like to see this take off.
GoinAllTheWay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 02:00 PM   #589
New Era
Franchise Player
 
New Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Another reason CLT is the future and is the best chance of fighting this trend. Not only planting more trees, but moving towards more timber based construction to keep the carbon removed from the atmosphere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...ange-1.5201102
A great idea, but let’s be realistic. That means planting one new tree for every single tree on the planet. Doesn’t seem possible. I think this is a great idea, but pragmatically not feasible. I think this could be part of the solution, but not the single bullet people are looking for. There is no single bullet, so we must consider all options.
New Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 02:10 PM   #590
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era View Post
A great idea, but let’s be realistic. That means planting one new tree for every single tree on the planet. Doesn’t seem possible. I think this is a great idea, but pragmatically not feasible. I think this could be part of the solution, but not the single bullet people are looking for. There is no single bullet, so we must consider all options.
Plus you are contending with massive deforestation right now.

That being said I think you are selling the idea a bit short. There are massive tree planting operations going on right now throughout the world. We just need to organize more and allocate budgetary resources to make it move faster.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 02:12 PM   #591
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay View Post
Urban forests are just about the coolest things. I wish the city planted them everywhere they could. And it looks a hell of a lot better than most of the "art" the city as paid millions for. Use that money to buy trees instead.
This is an interesting idea as well.

Regulation to require roof top 'forests' should be in place in every city / building where it could work.

Would a lot with HVAC costs.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #592
Mass_nerder
Franchise Player
 
Mass_nerder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
This is an interesting idea as well.

Regulation to require roof top 'forests' should be in place in every city / building where it could work.

Would a lot with HVAC costs.
The problem is that an intensive green roof able to support trees needs to have ~1m of depth available above the roof deck, and would require a significant amount of upkeep.
I always see renderings of buildings with literal forests depicted growing from every horizontal surface, but the reality is it's just not really feasible.
Cities should, however, require new buildings to at minimum have a white roof surface, but strongly encourage an extensive green roof. It would equate to a large amount of energy saved, and would drastically reduce the urban heat island effect
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
Mass_nerder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 07:35 AM   #593
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Just browsing a couple charts here, and found something unexpected. For Calgary, these are number of days below -20 and over 30. Click the 10x to see maximum range for each. What I find interesting is that our climate has gotten more moderate, not more extreme, as we are constantly told. Fewer cold days, and fewer hot days. Going to check out a few more cities, as this is obviously unexpected.



https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/char...20-yearly.html


https://calgary.weatherstats.ca/char...30-yearly.html
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 07:45 AM   #594
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

So most cities in Canada show pretty flat +30 days, and a decline of -20 days, though not very extreme. Interestingly, Yellowknife and Whitehorse are pretty flat for days below zero, with a slight decrease in days below -20. Obviously the +30 days are a bit of a crapshoot, no pattern there.


So why are we being told climate is getting more extreme in Canada? Shouldn't these charts show some pattern that would justify that statement?
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:07 AM   #595
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/chapter/headline-statements/


[new report - Bush, E. and Lemmen, D.S., editors (2019): Canada’s Changing Climate Report; Government of Canada, Ottawa, ON. 444 p. - longer than the Mueller Report?]


Canada is warming - more extreme weather is predicted in the future, if not evident yet:

Canada’s climate has warmed and will warm further in the future, driven by human influence. Global emissions of carbon dioxide from human activity will largely determine how much warming Canada and the world will experience in the future, and this warming is effectively irreversible. {2.3, 3.3, 3.4, 4.2}

Both past and future warming in Canada is, on average, about double the magnitude of global warming. Northern Canada has warmed and will continue to warm at more than double the global rate. {2.2, 3.3, 4.2}

The effects of widespread warming are evident in many parts of Canada and are projected to intensify in the future. In Canada, these effects include more extreme heat, less extreme cold, longer growing seasons, shorter snow and ice cover seasons, earlier spring peak streamflow, thinning glaciers, thawing permafrost, and rising sea level. Because some further warming is unavoidable, these trends will continue. {4.2, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 6.2, 7.5}

A warmer climate will intensify some weather extremes in the future. Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and more intense. This will increase the severity of heatwaves, and contribute to increased drought and wildfire risks. While inland flooding results from multiple factors, more intense rainfalls will increase urban flood risks. It is uncertain how warmer temperatures and smaller snowpacks will combine to affect the frequency and magnitude of snowmelt-related flooding. {4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.2, 6.2}
__________________
http://nwcalgarylaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966

Last edited by troutman; 07-08-2019 at 11:06 AM.
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:18 AM   #596
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

See that is the thing to me. The CO2 levels are supposedly already at a HIGH point. Much higher than they should be.

So the only reasonable solution is to extract the CO2 from the atmosphere.

And the only solution to that specific problem is either planting a trillion trees or find a way to do it with man-made machines.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:20 AM   #597
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/...ne-statements/

Canada is warming - more extreme weather is predicted in the future, if not evident yet:

Canada’s climate has warmed and will warm further in the future, driven by human influence. Global emissions of carbon dioxide from human activity will largely determine how much warming Canada and the world will experience in the future, and this warming is effectively irreversible. {2.3, 3.3, 3.4, 4.2}

Both past and future warming in Canada is, on average, about double the magnitude of global warming. Northern Canada has warmed and will continue to warm at more than double the global rate. {2.2, 3.3, 4.2}

The effects of widespread warming are evident in many parts of Canada and are projected to intensify in the future. In Canada, these effects include more extreme heat, less extreme cold, longer growing seasons, shorter snow and ice cover seasons, earlier spring peak streamflow, thinning glaciers, thawing permafrost, and rising sea level. Because some further warming is unavoidable, these trends will continue. {4.2, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 6.2, 7.5}

A warmer climate will intensify some weather extremes in the future. Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and more intense. This will increase the severity of heatwaves, and contribute to increased drought and wildfire risks. While inland flooding results from multiple factors, more intense rainfalls will increase urban flood risks. It is uncertain how warmer temperatures and smaller snowpacks will combine to affect the frequency and magnitude of snowmelt-related flooding. {4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.2, 6.2}
But that's not what I'm seeing in these charts, that this statement is not true. We are seeing a decreasing trend in days over 30. It's easy to say these things, but where is the evidence?
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:41 AM   #598
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

So I just looked at that report, and as near as I can figure they have this example:


"The bottom panels show estimates of attributable warming for extreme temperatures, including (d) annual highest daily maximum temperature, (e) annual highest daily minimum temperature, (f) annual lowest daily maximum temperature, and (g) annual lowest daily minimum temperature."


which only looks at the increase in the hottest day, which is more of an anomaly than a trend, so doesn't tell us much. Figure 4.10 shows this:





I find this confusing, as it doesn't appear to show the same thing the data I looked at shows(panel C).
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 08:55 AM   #599
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
But that's not what I'm seeing in these charts, that this statement is not true. We are seeing a decreasing trend in days over 30. It's easy to say these things, but where is the evidence?
How is it not true? It is a future prediction. May not be evident now.

You ask a good question - as this summer seems pleasantly cooler and wetter in Southern Alberta than usual (so far - it is only July 8th).

All is not doom and gloom. I'm reading an interesting book now called "Enlightenment Now" - the thesis is that there is never been a better time to be a human being despite all the present problems we perceive. We have made amazing measurable progress in the last 100 years in so many spheres (health, poverty, peace). For example, it is conservatively estimated that medical science has saved over 5 billion lives. We have the means to address climate change too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now
__________________
http://nwcalgarylaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966

Last edited by troutman; 07-08-2019 at 09:02 AM.
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to troutman For This Useful Post:
Old 07-08-2019, 09:40 AM   #600
edslunch
First Line Centre
 
edslunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
I think they are selling themselves short with just wanting to plant a trillion trees. I think double that should be the goal once they start looking at other less appealing areas, and better forest management.

At the end of the day CLT allows you to take those trees and extend their lifespan in terms of sequestering carbon for much longer. Potentially decades longer. Suddenly you have 25% more trees actively sucking carbon or simply storing it without needing more area to actually plant the trees.

Bizarre that we aren't throwing money at this like a madman.


The problem with trees is that while young ones remove huge amounts of carbon, old and dead trees give it back through decay and fire. Canada’s forests are apparently currently a net source of CO2 with all the beetle kill etc,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...urce-1.5011490
edslunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016