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Old 05-07-2021, 04:50 PM   #11881
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If Darryl is given that amount of power or influence over roster moves we are in far worse shape moving forward than we all thought.

His job is to coach. That's where it should end. If he doesn't like that he should be shown the door regardless of the optics.
Not saying this is wrong, but Treliving is sure getting a lot of the blame for Bennett and Kylington deployments.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:57 PM   #11882
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Why would the Flames do a mix of rest/retool?

For those speculating about what Darryl wants - he wants to win a Cup here. The roster here is incapable of that and the composition of championship teams show a blueprint that this team does not possess.

The Flames need a new core built on elite centres & defencemen.



That’s what this team needs.

There’s no reason to believe Darryl is only here for two more seasons. There’s no crazy deadline to meet here.
I don't disagree a rebuild is the right direction the team should go. But I also don't think Darryl came out of retirement to teach kids how to be good in 5 years. He's very impatient with the younger players as we've seen. He rides his starters and his best players regardless of age. He demoted a 24 year old Noah Hanifin and promoted his 37 year old captain, Mark Giordano and is playing him #1 minutes. Darryl's lifespan as a coach seems pretty short as his shtick wears thin, so I don't know, maybe Darryl dies a hero or eventually lives long enough to see himself become a villain. Guess time will tell.
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Old 05-08-2021, 02:26 AM   #11883
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This is one of those 'careful what you wish for' moments. So many on here were crying out for a change of coach, to an experienced, cup winning coach who would whip this team into shape and turn around the season. Well you got your coach, for 2 more years, but it hasn't quite worked out the way it was expected and actually it has turned out the problem was the players after all.
Now that most finally agree that we need to change some core players, we have a coach that works badly with young players, which is what the flames need to be putting into the line up right now, or going forward.
Not sure of the point I am trying to make, just saying that if a team looks like a pig, giving it a different farmer still makes it a pig.
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Old 05-08-2021, 10:09 AM   #11884
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Under Sutter, the Sharks started out as a crappy team that gradually got better and better in the regular season. Marceau seemed to develop OK under him. Unfortunately Sutter got canned before they made the great Thornton trade, and one wonders how they would have done under him after that, instead of Wilson and McLellan.

In LA Sutter had quite a few vets but he also developed Doughty, Voynov, Toffoli, Muzzin, Pearson. Kopitar was only 24 when Sutter was hired.
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:47 PM   #11885
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This is one of those 'careful what you wish for' moments. So many on here were crying out for a change of coach, to an experienced, cup winning coach who would whip this team into shape and turn around the season. Well you got your coach, for 2 more years, but it hasn't quite worked out the way it was expected and actually it has turned out the problem was the players after all.
Now that most finally agree that we need to change some core players, we have a coach that works badly with young players, which is what the flames need to be putting into the line up right now, or going forward.
Not sure of the point I am trying to make, just saying that if a team looks like a pig, giving it a different farmer still makes it a pig.

Isnít that kind of the problem? That people needed a coach like Darryl to figure out what we actually had? I was never on the fire the coach bandwagon because I knew it was a personnel problem, it has always been a personnel problem. This roster is so flawed with holes everywhere in the line up, no coach could ever take this roster to the next level. But I guess everyone finally got their elite coach and can finally see what the roster is.

I donít know if this particular team truly is in need of young players, maybe if the philosophy shifted to rebuild than absolutely. But ironically, it might actually be the youngest players on this team who have hurt the team the most down the stretch here. Maybe the kids werenít exactly ready to take the next step and perhaps thatís why Darryl has benched, scratched and called some them out in the media. Most of the pre/post game Sutter remarks that Iíve heard have been mostly about blaming the young players for turnovers, coverage mistakes and not playing with enough pace. He even said something along the lines of this team not being in the playoffs because 3 or 4 young defensemen have struggled this season. He definitely has not pulled many punches in regards to the kids. Most modern day coaches I think would bite their tongue, but Darryl employs the old school tough love method.
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Old 05-08-2021, 02:02 PM   #11886
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Under Sutter, the Sharks started out as a crappy team that gradually got better and better in the regular season. Marceau seemed to develop OK under him. Unfortunately Sutter got canned before they made the great Thornton trade, and one wonders how they would have done under him after that, instead of Wilson and McLellan.

In LA Sutter had quite a few vets but he also developed Doughty, Voynov, Toffoli, Muzzin, Pearson. Kopitar was only 24 when Sutter was hired.
Feel like future Hall of Famers like Kopitar and Doughty wouldíve been great players regardless of who coached them and what system they played.

For the record, I donít think Darryl hates young players or is against developing them, especially if those young players are good right out the gate. But I think thereís some non negotiables in Darrylís coaching method such as pace of play, defensive coverage and mistakes and these just happen to be a few things young players tend to struggle with at the NHL level.

.... And unfortunately for the Flames, a lot of our young kids have been guilty of a lot of these things since Darryl came aboard and thatís probably why theyíve spent time stapled to the bench and up in the press box. I certainly donít blame Darryl either, his job is to win games and in quite a few must win games, itís been a lot of the younger guys whoíve flubbed passes or made costly errors that have cost the team dearly. I think you can even see it in Juuso Valimaki who has broken his stick and looked up to the skies when his turnovers end up in the back of his net, as if heís deathly afraid of eating popcorn up in the rafters the next game.
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Old 05-08-2021, 02:03 PM   #11887
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I don't disagree a rebuild is the right direction the team should go. But I also don't think Darryl came out of retirement to teach kids how to be good in 5 years. He's very impatient with the younger players as we've seen. He rides his starters and his best players regardless of age. He demoted a 24 year old Noah Hanifin and promoted his 37 year old captain, Mark Giordano and is playing him #1 minutes. Darryl's lifespan as a coach seems pretty short as his shtick wears thin, so I don't know, maybe Darryl dies a hero or eventually lives long enough to see himself become a villain. Guess time will tell.
Not taking a dig but I find this thought very surprising, and it's been voiced a few times. Darryl is not a dummy... he's a Stanley Cup winning coach who surely knew what this Flames team was well before Brad called his cell.
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Old 05-08-2021, 02:04 PM   #11888
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I really don't think Sutter is a coach that works badly with young guys at all.

In fact, he probably motivates young players to take care of the details of the game better than any coach in the game today outside of maybe Quenneville and Trotz.

The problem is he's exactly what the Flames needed 2 seasons ago, and now we're kind of late in the game for this group.

If he can squeeze a SCF out of Iggy and a group of misfits though, anything is still possible even if we tear down the core.

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Old 05-08-2021, 02:17 PM   #11889
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Feel like future Hall of Famers like Kopitar and Doughty wouldíve been great players regardless of who coached them and what system they played.

For the record, I donít think Darryl hates young players or is against developing them, especially if those young players are good right out the gate. But I think thereís some non negotiables in Darrylís coaching method such as pace of play, defensive coverage and mistakes and these just happen to be a few things young players tend to struggle with at the NHL level.

.... And unfortunately for the Flames, a lot of our young kids have been guilty of a lot of these things since Darryl came aboard and thatís probably why theyíve spent time stapled to the bench and up in the press box. I certainly donít blame Darryl either, his job is to win games and in quite a few must win games, itís been a lot of the younger guys whoíve flubbed passes or made costly errors that have cost the team dearly. I think you can even see it in Juuso Valimaki who has broken his stick and looked up to the skies when his turnovers end up in the back of his net, as if heís deathly afraid of eating popcorn up in the rafters the next game.
Sutter seems to give Valimaki a lot of rope IMO. Dube not so much.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:01 PM   #11890
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Not taking a dig but I find this thought very surprising, and it's been voiced a few times. Darryl is not a dummy... he's a Stanley Cup winning coach who surely knew what this Flames team was well before Brad called his cell.
Didnít Darryl also pronounce this team as strong down the middle when he was hired? If practice was any indication, I think we may see Sean Monahan now playing wing to Derek Ryan tomorrow.

He also said he thinks this team was good enough to not only be a playoff team, but good in the playoffs as well.

My point is, he thought there was a lot of good pieces on this team and on paper that certainly appears to be the case, but in actuality, this team is flawed up and down the line up. Goaltending was supposed to be a strength, it has not been a strength. This teamís defense is supposedly elite going into every season, but the teamís #1 defenseman is still Mark Giordano whoís soon to be 38 in October. The forward depth was going to be great this season with the way everyone slotted, but this is still just a one line team thatís being outscored by the rebuilding Ottawa freaking Senators.

I really donít think Darryl knew exactly what he was getting himself into when he signed up for the job. But I also think Darryl has learned a lot though about whatís wrong with this roster and at the very least, thatís a positive. The first step is always recognizing that thereís a problem and thatís abundantly clear now.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:15 PM   #11891
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I really don't think Sutter is a coach that works badly with young guys at all.

In fact, he probably motivates young players to take care of the details of the game better than any coach in the game today outside of maybe Quenneville and Trotz.

The problem is he's exactly what the Flames needed 2 seasons ago, and now we're kind of late in the game for this group.

If he can squeeze a SCF out of Iggy and a group of misfits though, anything is still possible even if we tear down the core.
I actually donít hate Darrylís tough love approach with young players either, I think it forces them to learn quicker and adapt. Although a lot of others may disagree as the benching, scratching and public criticism could be counter productive. At the end of the day though, Iím not even sure myself if thereís a right or wrong answer because we donít know how this will affect the young kids in the long term, so itís a tough question to answer.

Iíll I can say is that I do see the motivation though. Darrylís job is about winning and in the last few weeks with games on the line, weíve seen a lot of brutal mistakes and turnovers from a lot of the younger kids. Heck, just off the top of my head, the last Ottawa game and Wednesdayís Jets game was basically lost due to turnovers by all young players on this team. So I can definitely see where Darryl is coming from.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:27 PM   #11892
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Sutter seems to give Valimaki a lot of rope IMO. Dube not so much.
Could be true, but is that out of necessity though? Because the Flames don’t exactly have a ton of other left shot defensive options right now. I feel like I’ve heard Darryl voice his displeasure towards Valimaki more so than Dube. Even in the last game for example with the Flames’ season clearly done, Valimaki bobbles the puck at the blueline and Wheeler scores, they switch to a shot of Sutter and he’s just completely irate shouting inaudibles. Then at the end of the game, the reporter asks why they lost, his answer was turnovers. Wouldn’t hear of anything else; lack of emotion Francis asks? Sutter replies with nope, just turnovers. Sutter has definitely been blunt this season and he has not shown much willingness to cover up and protect the young kids.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:37 PM   #11893
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Didnít Darryl also pronounce this team as strong down the middle when he was hired? If practice was any indication, I think we may see Sean Monahan now playing wing to Derek Ryan tomorrow.

He also said he thinks this team was good enough to not only be a playoff team, but good in the playoffs as well.

My point is, he thought there was a lot of good pieces on this team and on paper that certainly appears to be the case, but in actuality, this team is flawed up and down the line up. Goaltending was supposed to be a strength, it has not been a strength. This teamís defense is supposedly elite going into every season, but the teamís #1 defenseman is still Mark Giordano whoís soon to be 38 in October. The forward depth was going to be great this season with the way everyone slotted, but this is still just a one line team thatís being outscored by the rebuilding Ottawa freaking Senators.

I really donít think Darryl knew exactly what he was getting himself into when he signed up for the job. But I also think Darryl has learned a lot though about whatís wrong with this roster and at the very least, thatís a positive. The first step is always recognizing that thereís a problem and thatís abundantly clear now.
I find this hard to believe. I think he had a pretty good idea what he was getting into. Certainly more than the people on this forum.

I think what has happened is Sutter, and the Flames, knew full well that making the playoffs was a long shot at the time of his hire. I also think, in large part, Sutter was brought in to help determine who is going to stay and who is going to leave. This has been his window to Ďsee what he hasí. I donít think Sutter came out of retirement to coach a rebuilding team, and I do think he sees something in this team that he believes he can win with.

Should be an interesting offseason.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:42 PM   #11894
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Today's presser was interesting. Gawdins coming in at RW. Maybe a little tongue in cheek from grandpa Sutter but he answered a goaltending question about if D9m8ngue was gonna se any games and he said marky starts tomorrow and Louie gets the final 4 games.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:48 PM   #11895
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I find this hard to believe. I think he had a pretty good idea what he was getting into. Certainly more than the people on this forum.

I think what has happened is Sutter, and the Flames, knew full well that making the playoffs was a long shot at the time of his hire. I also think, in large part, Sutter was brought in to help determine who is going to stay and who is going to leave. This has been his window to Ďsee what he hasí. I donít think Sutter came out of retirement to coach a rebuilding team, and I do think he sees something in this team that he believes he can win with.

Should be an interesting offseason.
I honestly think the the Darryl hiring happened when it happened because Brad was desperate to save this season as there was plenty of time left. Darryl saw a lot of good pieces and I think he thought he turn it around. He talked a lot about playing a different style with more urgency and made remarks about this team not just making the playoffs, but winning rounds. Thereís no question in my mind that Brad and Darryl thought they could salvage the season. It might have happened too if not for that really really bad stretch in April. What was it 1 win 10 games or something like that? In a 56 game season, thatíll kill your season.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:59 PM   #11896
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I honestly think the the Darryl hiring happened when it happened because Brad was desperate to save this season as there was plenty of time left. Darryl saw a lot of good pieces and I think he thought he turn it around. He talked a lot about playing a different style with more urgency and made remarks about this team not just making the playoffs, but winning rounds. There’s no question in my mind that Brad and Darryl thought they could salvage the season. It might have happened too if not for that really really bad stretch in April. What was it 1 win 10 games or something like that? In a 56 game season, that’ll kill your season.
Well, I think the shoe was on the other foot. I don’t think the timing was Treliving’s choice, I think it was Sutter’s choice. he came back when he was ready. The Flames reportedly has been talking with him since as far back as Peters left the organization. The 3-4 week period after the 2020 season when the Flames had not announced who the coach was going to be also speaks to this, they wanted Sutter then. He definitely had kept a close eye on the team, I would bet. It was a slow burn and I bet he thought carefully about it. The timing and reasons were/are his decisions.

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Old 05-08-2021, 05:13 PM   #11897
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Interesting tidbit in an Portzline article from the Athletic today about the possibility of JD returning to Columbus, Jarmo has stated the BJís are looking to retool, not rebuild. With three 1stís sounds like theyíre prepared to move one, or more, of them. This isnít necessarily surprising, but I wonder what a trade might look like between the Flames and Jackets.

JG for Bjorkstrand and the 2nd of the Jackets three firsts?
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Old 05-08-2021, 06:29 PM   #11898
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Interesting tidbit in an Portzline article from the Athletic today about the possibility of JD returning to Columbus, Jarmo has stated the BJís are looking to retool, not rebuild. With three 1stís sounds like theyíre prepared to move one, or more, of them. This isnít necessarily surprising, but I wonder what a trade might look like between the Flames and Jackets.

JG for Bjorkstrand and the 2nd of the Jackets three firsts?
So CBJ are trading that for one year of JG? Not exactly a place players want to be.
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Old 05-08-2021, 07:18 PM   #11899
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So CBJ are trading that for one year of JG? Not exactly a place players want to be.
You’re probably right.

Might make sense though, with Atkinson and Liane at RW already, they’re deep there. Liane-Gaudreau could be a lethal combo. A lot closer to home for JG, he may want to resign if it proves it be successful.

Philadelphia is the obvious landing spot, but sounds like their needs are on D, more so than LW.
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Old 05-08-2021, 07:26 PM   #11900
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Sutter seems to give Valimaki a lot of rope IMO. Dube not so much.

I am guessing it is because he believes Dube has more to give. He was talking about dangling carrots and this would be a prime example.
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