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Old 04-12-2021, 04:18 PM   #161
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I believe you need to be "born into the title" so yeah, Camilla won't be Queen and Katie won't be Queen.
Kate will presumably be known as Queen Catherine when William takes the throne. She'll officially be the Queen consort, but she should still be called Queen, as previous Queens consort have been.

The current Queen's mother was known as Queen Elizabeth until the Queen was crowned. Then, she adopted the title of Queen Mother to avoid confusion. Previous Queen consorts who survived their husbands just continued to be called Queen.



It is believed that one of the conditions for the Queen's approval of Charles and Camilla's marriage was that Camilla will not take the title of Queen. She instead is expected to adopt the title of Princess Consort, just as Philip and Albert (Victoria's husband) were Prince consorts.
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Old 04-12-2021, 04:24 PM   #162
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When Prince Charles becomes King, does Camilla get the title of Queen? Likewise does Kate Middleton become Queen?

Or are they doomed to the same fate as Phillip and remain princesses forever?
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They get the title Queen Consort, at least by tradition.
Camilla will get the title "princess consort" when Charles become king; a compromise that has never been made before, because of her unpopularity. Normally a king's wife automatically becomes queen (consort) upon her husband's accession.

Kate automatically becomes queen when William becomes king.

(Again, "queen consort" instead of "queen regnant", meaning she's just the king's wife instead of actually wielding any power of her own. By contrast Elizabeth is queen regnant: she's the grand poobah who actually rules. Philip was just "prince consort" because there had never been a "king consort"; "king" is the highest title in the land.)
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Old 04-13-2021, 08:30 AM   #163
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I don't pretend to follow the royals and know their business, but that seems unfair to Camilla?

Is it just because she's the 2nd wife? Or because he was banging her while he was still married to Di?
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Old 04-13-2021, 09:48 AM   #164
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I don't pretend to follow the royals and know their business, but that seems unfair to Camilla?

Is it just because she's the 2nd wife? Or because he was banging her while he was still married to Di?
A little bit of a sarcastic response, but the monarchy existing isn't really built upon the principals of "fair" among people.

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Old 04-13-2021, 10:00 AM   #165
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I don't pretend to follow the royals and know their business, but that seems unfair to Camilla?

Is it just because she's the 2nd wife? Or because he was banging her while he was still married to Di?
My understanding is limited but yeah, pretty much. 'Out of respect for Diana' or something is what they say
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Old 04-13-2021, 10:54 AM   #166
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I don't pretend to follow the royals and know their business, but that seems unfair to Camilla?

Is it just because she's the 2nd wife? Or because he was banging her while he was still married to Di?
I read up a little bit on it, and it isn't completely unprecedented for divorcees and 2nd wives to not get the higher title. It does seem kind of dumb. I read also that giving the ruling Queen's husband the title of Prince Consort over King Consort is more a tradition than a law, but the source wasn't an academic one, so I don't know if that is actually true.

I do find it ridiculous that the Queen had to give her blessing for the marriage of her adult son, but technically, the Queen is religious head of the state as well as the ruling monarch. Not having an Anglican marriage is a big deal for a monarch apparently.
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Old 04-13-2021, 11:49 AM   #167
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:44 PM   #168
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I read up a little bit on it, and it isn't completely unprecedented for divorcees and 2nd wives to not get the higher title. It does seem kind of dumb.
A divorced king is pretty much unprecedented. (Henry VIII's many failed marriages were annulments, or he had them executed. ) Charles was the first heir apparent to get a divorce.

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I read also that giving the ruling Queen's husband the title of Prince Consort over King Consort is more a tradition than a law, but the source wasn't an academic one, so I don't know if that is actually true.
Of course, it's all "tradition". "Tradition" is about 95% of what the monarchy is! :P

As such, there's never been a (widely acknowledged) "king consort" in the UK or England. All the previous queens regnant's husbands were not kings except William III, who co-ruled with his wife Mary II, and Mary I's husband Philip, who was separately King of Spain and Portugal. Anne's husband George and Victoria's husband Albert were both princes, never kings.

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I do find it ridiculous that the Queen had to give her blessing for the marriage of her adult son, but technically, the Queen is religious head of the state as well as the ruling monarch. Not having an Anglican marriage is a big deal for a monarch apparently.
Being that the monarch is also the head of the Anglican Church, it's a pretty big deal if their own marriage isn't actually kosher within the rules of the church. It was only about 20 years ago that the Church allowed divorced people to remarry while the former spouse was still alive.
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Old 04-13-2021, 01:14 PM   #169
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I do find it ridiculous that the Queen had to give her blessing for the marriage of her adult son, but technically, the Queen is religious head of the state as well as the ruling monarch. Not having an Anglican marriage is a big deal for a monarch apparently.
It's a legal requirement for the current monarch to approve of any marriage that would impact the line of succession.

The law has been on the books since before the American Revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Marriages_Act_1772

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The Act said that no descendant of King George II, male or female, other than the issue of princesses who had married or might thereafter marry "into foreign families", could marry without the consent of the reigning monarch, "signified under the great seal and declared in council". That consent was to be set out in the licence and in the register of the marriage, and entered in the books of the Privy Council. Any marriage contracted without the consent of the monarch was to be null and void.

This act was replaced in 2013 and the current law now only impacts the marriages of anyone who is 6th in the line to the throne or better at the time of the marriage. Prior to that, the Queen had to approve every marriage for anyone who was in the line of succession.

So far, Harry's marriage is the only one to have been approved under the new law.

The new act also got rid of the rule that required younger male heirs to supercede any older sisters in the order of succession, and marrying a Catholic is no longer disqualifying either.
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Old 04-13-2021, 01:18 PM   #170
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My understanding is limited but yeah, pretty much. 'Out of respect for Diana' or something is what they say
It makes sense that Camilla doesn't use the "Princess of Wales" title since it's so associated with Diana, but not with the "Queen" title. When/if Charles becomes king, he probably can change the agreement as he sees fit.

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I do find it ridiculous that the Queen had to give her blessing for the marriage of her adult son, but technically, the Queen is religious head of the state as well as the ruling monarch. Not having an Anglican marriage is a big deal for a monarch apparently.
Up to 2015, the British sovereign had to agree to any marriage for the entire extended royal family. Now it's just the first six in line to the throne. Most of the ruling house of Europe had similar laws, to ensure that family members married spouses of the right religion and status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succes...t_to_marriages
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Old 04-13-2021, 01:33 PM   #171
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It makes sense that Camilla doesn't use the "Princess of Wales" title since it's so associated with Diana, but not with the "Queen" title. When/if Charles becomes king, he probably can change the agreement as he sees fit.
Probably, but optics would be bad since this was what was announced when they were married
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Old 04-13-2021, 02:07 PM   #172
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A divorced king is pretty much unprecedented. (Henry VIII's many failed marriages were annulments, or he had them executed. ) Charles was the first heir apparent to get a divorce.



Of course, it's all "tradition". "Tradition" is about 95% of what the monarchy is! :P

As such, there's never been a (widely acknowledged) "king consort" in the UK or England. All the previous queens regnant's husbands were not kings except William III, who co-ruled with his wife Mary II, and Mary I's husband Philip, who was separately King of Spain and Portugal. Anne's husband George and Victoria's husband Albert were both princes, never kings.



Being that the monarch is also the head of the Anglican Church, it's a pretty big deal if their own marriage isn't actually kosher within the rules of the church. It was only about 20 years ago that the Church allowed divorced people to remarry while the former spouse was still alive.
Did he divorce Diana before she died suddenly? I thought her death ended the marriage.
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Old 04-13-2021, 02:34 PM   #173
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Their divorce was finalized about a year before she died.
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Old 04-14-2021, 06:26 PM   #174
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Prince Philip? I met him. Rest In Peace.
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