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Old 04-12-2021, 04:28 PM   #5301
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Posted in the Military thread, but the feds announcing a multibillion dollar bail out of Air Canada. No other airlines were announced.
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Old 04-12-2021, 06:02 PM   #5302
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Upon initial details of the Air Canada deal I want to say that it seems pretty fair and not overly cumbersome for the government.
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Old 04-12-2021, 07:51 PM   #5303
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6 billion and they have to buy airbus jets made in Quebec.


Still no deal for Westjet or any other travel related sector. Good to see the government in action. once again former bombardier gets a bail out.



And a Montreal based company gets a bail out.


And it happens right after the Bloc votes to kill a committee on sexual abuse in the forces.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:01 PM   #5304
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6 billion and they have to buy airbus jets made in Quebec.
I know it’s trendy to sh-t on Quebec, but we don’t produce commercial jets anywhere else in this country, do we? So if we’re giving Air Canada $6bn in taxpayer dollars as a bailout, you’re goddamn right I want them buying Canadian-produced aircraft instead of sending it to Boeing in the US.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:08 PM   #5305
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Do people really want to see Air Canada fail and be left with a WestJet monopoly when it comes to air travel? Seems incredibly shortsighted to me.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:13 PM   #5306
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Do people really want to see Air Canada fail and be left with a WestJet monopoly when it comes to air travel? Seems incredibly shortsighted to me.

So we want a return to a Air Canada monopoly in this country and Westjet to fail. That's just as gross.



That's just as incredibly short sighted to me.


I'm betting we're now going to have a massive budget passed with Bloc support and all it cost us was a 6 billion dollar bribe to the Bloc and in return the Bloc killed the committee investigating Harassment and abuse in the Armed Forces.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:20 PM   #5307
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Air Canada deal involves equity, that isn’t directly possible with WestJet which complicates any potential package.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:27 PM   #5308
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6 billion and they have to buy airbus jets made in Quebec.


Still no deal for Westjet or any other travel related sector. Good to see the government in action. once again former bombardier gets a bail out.



And a Montreal based company gets a bail out.


And it happens right after the Bloc votes to kill a committee on sexual abuse in the forces.
Where are you getting this from. They are buying 33 airbus planes and 40 737-Max’s

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The government said the financing will also allow Air Canada to continue supporting the country's aerospace industry — in part by allowing it to complete the purchase of 33 Airbus A220 aircraft, manufactured at Airbus' facility in Mirabel, Que., and a separate order for 40 Boeing 737 Max aircraft.
Also 500 million equity stake and 5.5 billion in low interest / interest free loans with no dividends in the loan period and executive pay cap all seem vary reasonable.

This is less costly then the tax breaks that would be required to create a new airline out of a bankrupted AC to computer with Westjet. This seems like a reasonable investment.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5984543

Last edited by GGG; 04-12-2021 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:30 PM   #5309
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Probably reading to much into it, but interesting that the day the Liberals get the Bloc to back them in an extremely controversial move, a Quebec company receives a massive bailout that the rest of the industry doesn't see.

These deals don't happen in a day so likely a short-sighted coincidence, but my lord the optics
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:35 PM   #5310
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So we want a return to a Air Canada monopoly in this country and Westjet to fail. That's just as gross.
This is a false dichotomy. Also, if the AC deal involved equity, then that’s an extra value we wouldn’t get with WestJet as they’re privately owned now.
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:31 PM   #5311
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So, some of you are fine with the Montreal based company getting billions of dollars in aid, that no other airline, specifically the countries 2nd largest airline which is based in the west, are getting? We are at the point where liberals pumping money into their voting strongholds out east at the expense of western based jobs and companies is actually something you want to be excusing?

Maybe the government will get around to helping WestJet and others as well, but as it stands this is inexcusable. Unsurprising, but still inexcusable.
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:51 PM   #5312
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So, some of you are fine with the Montreal based company getting billions of dollars in aid, that no other airline, specifically the countries 2nd largest airline which is based in the west, are getting? We are at the point where liberals pumping money into their voting strongholds out east at the expense of western based jobs and companies is actually something you want to be excusing?

Maybe the government will get around to helping WestJet and others as well, but as it stands this is inexcusable. Unsurprising, but still inexcusable.
Has West Jet been denied aid? Will it agree to the terms of the loans? As a privately held equity company selling a portion to Canada and not being allowed to take profit may be too high of price for interest free loans.

More likely is AC agreed to terms 1st and WJ is still negotiating.
Quote:
Freeland said the government is still negotiating potential aid packages for other airlines, including Calgary-based WestJet. She said the basic requirements of refunding customers, restoring regional routes, restricting executive compensation and protecting jobs would apply to other potential deals, but that each package would reflect the individual needs of the airline.
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In a statement, WestJet spokesperson Morgan Bell confirmed the company is in talks with the government over what it called a "safe travel-restart framework." Bell said WestJet has pledged to restore service "at our earliest opportunity" to the 42 airports it served before the pandemic began and that its refund policy is "industry-leading."

Last edited by GGG; 04-12-2021 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 04-12-2021, 11:34 PM   #5313
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“Have they been denied aid?” Evidently they have been denied meaningful aid, or else they would have announced the agreed upon package.

They’ve been negotiating aid for over a year. There may be a deal yet made. You seem to discount the idea of a liberal government prioritizing an aid package to the Montreal based airline, which seems counter to many examples over many years. Perhaps this is just a matter of logistics preventing an aid package of similar magnitude for a western company, and the liberal need for votes out east is not a factor. That seems disconnected from a common political pattern.

Do you discount the political motivations that are likely at play? While I appreciate the look at possible other logical hurdles as to why they have neglected the entire industry, and now are only able to make a deal with the Quebec based airline, to ignore the political forces that are likely a large part of the story is an omission in the analysis.

Last edited by Ryan Coke; 04-12-2021 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 04-12-2021, 11:42 PM   #5314
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“Have they been denied aid?” Evidently they have been denied meaningful aid, or else they would have announced the agreed upon package.

They’ve been negotiating aid for over a year. There may be a deal yet made. You seem to discount the idea of a liberal government prioritizing an aid package to the Montreal based airline, which seems counter to many examples over many years. Perhaps this is just a matter of logistics preventing an aid package of similar magnitude for a western company, and the liberal need for votes out east is not a factor. That seems disconnected from a common political pattern.

Do you discount the political motivations that are likely at play? While I appreciate the look at possible other logical hurdles as to why they have neglected the entire industry, and now are only able to make a deal with the Quebec based airline, to ignore the political forces that are likely a large part of the story is an omission in the analysis.
I bet the west jet deal is announced within 7 days. As late as February both airlines were still fighting over concepts like giving refunds so while they have been “negotiating” for a year they certainly weren’t meeting government demands until recently.
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:12 AM   #5315
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Ryan Coke, I’m not disagreeing that it would be inexcusable for only one of the two major airlines to receive aid. With that being said, since they clearly have to negotiate different packages for both don’t you think it would just as inexcusable to withhold a deal and the relief that goes along with it for one of them just so they can announce both deals at the same time? Assuming there is another deal on the way.
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:33 AM   #5316
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I bet the west jet deal is announced within 7 days. As late as February both airlines were still fighting over concepts like giving refunds so while they have been “negotiating” for a year they certainly weren’t meeting government demands until recently.
I’m surprised that any politically aware people would refuse to acknowledge the political will to give aid to the Eastern, Quebec based company over a western company, in almost any industry.

But I hope that your bet that some type of meaningful aid that is tailored to WestJet (and other airlines) is announced in the next 7 days is true.

WestJet announced refunds for all October 24 of last year.

Last edited by Ryan Coke; 04-13-2021 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:41 AM   #5317
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So, some of you are fine with the Montreal based company getting billions of dollars in aid, that no other airline, specifically the countries 2nd largest airline which is based in the west, are getting? We are at the point where liberals pumping money into their voting strongholds out east at the expense of western based jobs and companies is actually something you want to be excusing?

Maybe the government will get around to helping WestJet and others as well, but as it stands this is inexcusable. Unsurprising, but still inexcusable.
IIRC, Air Canada is mandated by the government to run flights to isolated areas like the North. So they’re not entirely independent the way Westjet is.
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:54 AM   #5318
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You’re referring to the Air Canada Public Participation Act (ACPPA) that was part of its privatization I assume. At one time it had some requirements for service, I believe as well during the time of the AC/Canadian merger.

I don’t believe any of those route restrictions exist any longer. Which is exhibited by the many flight cancellations, and the governments desire for the airlines, both AC and WJ, to maintain service to small communities (in spite of extremely low load factors the last year) as a point of leverage in the aid talks.

They have been fully independent from the government for a long time.

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Old 04-13-2021, 07:28 AM   #5319
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I’m surprised that any politically aware people would refuse to acknowledge the political will to give aid to the Eastern, Quebec based company over a western company, in almost any industry.

But I hope that your bet that some type of meaningful aid that is tailored to WestJet (and other airlines) is announced in the next 7 days is true.

WestJet announced refunds for all October 24 of last year.
The government bought a pipeline which cost them votes in Quebec and BC. (I acknowledge their actions also made it difficult for it to proceed but they stepped up and helped an entire industry against their political interests). In general this narrative while somewhat exists is blown way out of proportion.

Didn’t west jet only announce rebates for flights canceled by west jet and not ones canceled by customers?

https://blog.westjet.com/a-further-d...on-on-refunds/

That is not what Air Canada just agreed to. They are refunding trips canceled by customers before March 20.
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Old 04-13-2021, 07:41 AM   #5320
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I would wager there’s probably some deal in the works for WestJet.

But if you held a gun to my head and said only one carrier could get the bailout so pick one, then unapologetically, I’m giving it to Air Canada. It is objectively the case that Air Canada is more important of the two carriers. They run more flights to more destinations, and before the pandemic employed just shy of three times the people that WestJet did (32,900 AC 2019 vs 11,600 WJ 2018). I have no idea what their staffing levels are now, but at the best of times, the fact remains that Air Canada has demonstrated the capability to provide more services and employment than WestJet, so that’s the one you save.

You can argue about the political motivations behind bailing out the Montréal-based company over the Calgary-based WestJet (owned by a Toronto-based private equity firm), but simply on which carrier is more important in the grand scheme, it’s AC every time.
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