General Apple Megathread

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Holy crap. I know there are people out there who spent that much but what do you do for a living to need a $35k computer? Not being arrogant but genuinely curious. Wild.

I have three, use them for colour correction/VFX for film and TV. That is the 2019 7.1 model, last of the intel Mac Pro's. Good machines but nearly worth that cost maybe half. Need the GPU for rendering. Honestly, the M1 Studio Ultra for a fraction of the cost performs as well if not better than those older Mac Pros.

At the time of purchase you were pretty close to the same cost to buy a similar windows based system with the cost of GPU's being outrageous.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by photon

The tech in the headset looks very impressive, it seems like something where you'd have to try it to really get how impressive it is. Current AR seems to be ok-ish but it doesn't really feel really well done. If Apple has fixed that that's awesome.

Too bad it's too expensive for anyone to see it. Hopefully the tech filters down over time but if no one buys it hard for that to happen.

Cost is pretty interesting. When the first iPhone came out I think it was around $600. Probably a year in when it finally was available I asked a friend who could get phones for cheaper how much he could get it for and he said around $500 and I balked and didn’t buy it. I was barely out of university making basically student pay but $500 for a phone was unjustifiable. To think a few years later they’d reach $2000 was inconceivable. Looking at this it’s starting high and it really sets the market up in the future for it being high and will probably continue going up to some degree. I also don’t think this will be refreshed each year which is why the tag is high.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

I have three, use them for colour correction/VFX for film and TV. That is the 2019 7.1 model, last of the intel Mac Pro's. Good machines but nearly worth that cost maybe half. Need the GPU for rendering. Honestly, the M1 Studio Ultra for a fraction of the cost performs as well if not better than those older Mac Pros.

At the time of purchase you were pretty close to the same cost to buy a similar windows based system with the cost of GPU's being outrageous.

I’m not tech savvy but it seems your industry always needs to keep up with processing power. It’s incredible the prices can go that high though.

[Russic]

An interesting toe-dip into the water. I'm curious to see where this thing ends up in 5 years. Anybody who gets into VR headsets can probably see how the price gets away from you real quick.

People laughed at the PSVR2 being $750, but when you get down into the specs, it's actually a very well-priced bit of tech (the question is more whether people need that in their lives). As Apple kept listing off the bells and whistles, the price kept climbing in my mind for sure.

The app store will be a very big make-or-break factor imo. As it stands now it's like a base iPhone 1. It can do some stuff, but the real value comes in 3 years when developers have had time to make some really cool stuff for it.

I think apple probably has something here, but only if they invest long and hard and lose a _ton_ of money for a while (not really their strong suit).

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

How not? The M chips have been a step change in laptops. They are ugly as hell, but battery life and performance are just so far beyond their previous x86 offerings it makes going back to them impossible for me.

The design is extremely dated. Poor design in general, boards do not fit properly. Way to heavy. And really, for what you get for that cost you can get a really good Windows laptop or two. Boss's laptop was $6900. Not worth nearly that much maybe half. Most laptop users do not need the power that is packed in there anyways. Most people are buying them for desktop use.

M based chip performance is fantastic though. For $900 the M1 Mini is a bargain.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by photon

The tech in the headset looks very impressive, it seems like something where you'd have to try it to really get how impressive it is. Current AR seems to be ok-ish but it doesn't really feel really well done. If Apple has fixed that that's awesome.

Too bad it's too expensive for anyone to see it. Hopefully the tech filters down over time but if no one buys it hard for that to happen.

I think one of the issues is AR vs VR vs XR. They're all similar, but slightly different from a design and platform standpoint. Also, IMO there's lots of problems for what AR is claimed to be vs what it really should be. Lots of offerings claiming AR is actually XR for instance IMO. Lots of "AR" glasses, you can technically see through for purposes of AR, but in reality, you have so much obstructed, it's basically like claiming a Lamborghini Countach has a back window you can see out of.

Most of the offerings out there cannot do all 3 effectively or without seeming too clunky from a software or hardware perspective. Apple is one of the few claiming they'll be able to do all 3 in a way that isn't clunky. I think Apple has to to start from a proper AR standpoint where only a small portion of your vision obstructed from a safety/smooth interaction standpoint. XR and VR have the highest amount of sensory deprivation/disassociation of the 3. Even looking down from a set of XR glasses to check the instruction manual isn't easy.

I assume Apple, to differentiate itself from the pack, is going to focus on proper AR with XR and VR secondary due to the sensory deprivation and disassociation associated with it. The nature of XR and VR require being mostly stationary (standing, sitting or lying down). AR is the one that doesn't require that if deployed in an HUD type of concept and IMO there's no one out there really doing it or designing for it. Everything out there is either VR (PSVR, Oculus etc.) or XR (movie watching glasses etc.) or neither (ie: Rayban stories smart glasses). But AR is the boring out out of the major reasons to use such a device. VR and XR are sexier.

I think since Google Lens in 2012, no one is close for AR.

PSVR/Oculus: VR yes, XR yes, AR no.
Google lens: VR no, XR sorta, AR yes.
Movie watching and digital desktop glasses: VR no, XR yes, AR only by loose technicality.
Apple (claims): VR yes, XR yes, AR yes.

Apple is going to have to convince the world again they want to change the way they interact with tech like they did with the original iPhone and iPads to get such a device with all 3 of AR/VR and XR to be successful. It's an uphill battle, but if any company will figure out how to do it successfully, Apple does have a little bit more of a track record there than many other companies.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Cost is pretty interesting. When the first iPhone came out I think it was around $600. Probably a year in when it finally was available I asked a friend who could get phones for cheaper how much he could get it for and he said around $500 and I balked and didn’t buy it. I was barely out of university making basically student pay but $500 for a phone was unjustifiable. To think a few years later they’d reach $2000 was inconceivable. Looking at this it’s starting high and it really sets the market up in the future for it being high and will probably continue going up to some degree. I also don’t think this will be refreshed each year which is why the tag is high.

iPhones were a bit weird though, because for the first few models they were only really sold through carriers that locked you into plans, so they subsidized the sale price to force an expensive plan.

If you look only at unlocked prices, they're actually slightly cheaper now (for the base models at least). The first unlocked iPhone in the US was the 4S and it sold for $649, which is $875 in today's dollars. The iPhone 14 currently sells for $799. It's a little different in Canada, but that's simply due to the exchange rate differences between now and then.

And their other products are similar. The iPad, Macbook Air, and Apple Watch are all cheaper today than at launch if you adjust for inflation.

[bluejays]

I can't say this without coming across as an Apple fanboy (only ever owned the phone - good; watch - mediocre), but I think anything has generally put money into through a release in the past 20 or so years, they stick with. Pretty much by announcing it in this manner they're putting their money on it being huge. Google seems to put out trials of stuff but doesn't back it up with keeping with it or supporting it very long. So Apple should own this one for awhile. I do wonder about Microsoft coming into play with some version though. And of course Samsung who steals from the people they're manufacturing for.

[JohnnyB]

I'm not a huge Apple fan, but am glad to see them enter into this market and looking forward to seeing what they can do in it. If I were an Apple fan I would consider it at $3,500, but not in a first generation device. Hopefully by the time it gets around to second generation there has been a great demonstration of how capable it is and some true benefits to use, then we can see a second gen that grows the market while fast followers come it at lower price points with a bunch of learnings from Apple's offering.

Edit: Also, it's hilarious how much Tim Cook's voice sounds like Mr. Garrison from South Park. When he's doing the voice over for the product video I just can't stop thinking that I'm hearing Mr. Garrison.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I can't say this without coming across as an Apple fanboy (only ever owned the phone - good; watch - mediocre), but I think anything has generally put money into through a release in the past 20 or so years, they stick with. Pretty much by announcing it in this manner they're putting their money on it being huge. Google seems to put out trials of stuff but doesn't back it up with keeping with it or supporting it very long. So Apple should own this one for awhile. I do wonder about Microsoft coming into play with some version though. And of course Samsung who steals from the people they're manufacturing for.

Microsoft does have something in the hopper, but IMO it's too unfocused at this point. I think it is in the $3500-5000+ range. They'd need a catalyst on the market to help them restructure their vast ideas and IP into something more consumer friendly/demanded package. IIRC over a decade ago, they had this desktop surface idea that combined holographic, projection and physical interaction of objects beyond pens. I think they might have too many ideas of cool niche things to do, but not enough concepts that could be embraced at a consumer or business level.

I think Apple, Microsoft and Google were the only ones to put forth a concept that isn't related solely to media consumption (ie: Oculus and PSVR). Not to say VR and XR is a gimmick, but it's IMO a very limited market at this point in time due to a variety of reasons beyond hardware and price. Yet VR media consumption or XR media consumption is the big current money maker here, and not AR. The entire industry has to jump together, but someone has to jump first and most key players are wary of jumping too early. This is in the same way as the original, "We have laptops, what are tablets going to do that I can't do on a laptop." vs "Tablets are convenient, what can't they do that I need a laptop specifically to do." I have disdain for the over usage of comments like, "Revolutionizes the industry." but IMO that's what all the new players (including Apple) must do to make this tech viable and successful.

Apple started this revolution via the iPad. It was originally ridiculed, not any more. Microsoft is still doing their own thing in this category (Surface). Samsung likely sits back and learns from the other guys mistakes and Google likely decides they don't care, until they suddenly decide otherwise, and then they suddenly aim to be a top 2 player in that space. IIRC, they did similar things with the Apple watch (ie: too expensive for regular watch and activity tracker!).

I've often said in some discussions that IMO Apple is not much of an inventor. They're just really damn good at marketing and innovating existing tech for a demand people didn't realize they had. I'm usually a late adopter for Apple products, and each time I said a concept was kinda dumb, I was proven wrong. So this time, I'm intrigued to see how they pull this one off.

[Hack&Lube]

So I've just started on my M1 Macbook Pro journey coming from being a PC user since 1992. I converted to IOS from Android 5 years ago but MacOS was something I only had frustration with while growing up. I'm finally making a switch because Apple silicon is just too good.

I'm now up to speed with CMD + Space and CMD + F (why is option, cmd, space the same thing?) and even CMD+Shift+4. But what do you guys use Fn for and how you keep from pressing it instead of Ctrl?

[Galakanokis]

I normally dock my MacBook and function is not at the bottom left on the Mac keyboards like it is on the laptop itself. I do not use the function button on the laptop and have the key disabled.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So I've just started on my M1 Macbook Pro journey coming from being a PC user since 1992. I converted to IOS from Android 5 years ago but MacOS was something I only had frustration with while growing up. I'm finally making a switch because Apple silicon is just too good.

I'm now up to speed with CMD + Space and CMD + F (why is option, cmd, space the same thing?) and even CMD+Shift+4. But what do you guys use Fn for and how you keep from pressing it instead of Ctrl?

CMD+F is program specific. It will open search in whatever app you are in. Option+CMD+Space opens up the Finder search all the time.

A couple of handy apps are Better Snap Tool for window management and Monitor Control if you use 3rd party monitors with your mac. These are go to's for me.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

How not? The M chips have been a step change in laptops. They are ugly as hell, but battery life and performance are just so far beyond their previous x86 offerings it makes going back to them impossible for me.

I don't get this ugly as hell comment. I had the option of an older wedge-super thin Macbook Air and the M1 Pro.

I choose the M1 because it's a thick beauty that actually includes connectivity that a power user needs. Magsafe, SD card slots, and even a damn HDMI port. Apple not requiring you to be a dongle-master is one reason why I seriously considered dipping my toes into MacOS in the first place because they don't seem like toys that just make you look good at the coffee shop anymore.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

CMD+F is program specific. It will open search in whatever app you are in. Option+CMD+Space opens up the Finder search all the time.

A couple of handy apps are Better Snap Tool for window management and Monitor Control if you use 3rd party monitors with your mac. These are go to's for me.

Thank you, one of my first orders of business was to find an app that reverses the scroll wheel on a mouse while keeping natural scrolling on the trackpad (Apple does this right, there are days I do my entire workflow without touching my mouse compared to my PC).

I still get lost occasionally when it decides that that an app is a "Desktop" one or its own workspace. I ended up not using workspaces anyway - just like on iPhone where I refuse to allow it to have more than one page of apps.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't get this ugly as hell comment. I had the option of an older wedge-super thin Macbook Air and the M1 Pro.

I choose the M1 because it's a thick beauty that actually includes connectivity that a power user needs. Magsafe, SD card slots, and even a damn HDMI port. Apple not requiring you to be a dongle-master is one reason why I seriously considered dipping my toes into MacOS in the first place because they don't seem like toys that just make you look good at the coffee shop anymore.

The HDMI ports are ####, poorly designed and break very easily. I have had two repaired already. If you use it make sure the laptop is not moved around at all. Have had numerous chats with my Apple rep about this and they don't care, like most things with them.

Honestly, if you hooking up to a monitor a decent TB4 dock is the way to go. One cable to the mac is much better in my opinion. I don't carry any dongles. Either use it as a laptop or connected to a dock.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Thank you, one of my first orders of business was to find an app that reverses the scroll wheel on a mouse while keeping natural scrolling on the trackpad (Apple does this right, there are days I do my entire workflow without touching my mouse compared to my PC).

I still get lost occasionally when it decides that that an app is a "Desktop" one or its own workspace. I ended up not using workspaces anyway - just like on iPhone where I refuse to allow it to have more than one page of apps.

Did you find an app to do that? I have yet to get one to work the way i would like it to.

I don't mind using extra desktops, easy enough to swipe or I have keys mapped on my tablet to switch the screens. With Better Snap you can move windows more like Windows and you don't necessarily have to put the window in full screen. I never use full screen, it will auto create the extra desktop space.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Did you find an app to do that? I have yet to get one to work the way i would like it to.

I don't mind using extra desktops, easy enough to swipe or I have keys mapped on my tablet to switch the screens. With Better Snap you can move windows more like Windows and you don't necessarily have to put the window in full screen. I never use full screen, it will auto create the extra desktop space.

This was the best of what I tried:

https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels

[JohnnyB]

Very cool account of some of the tech that will make the user experience for this new device. Both cool and creepy.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665792422914453506

...

The work I did supported the foundational development of Vision Pro, the mindfulness experiences, ▇▇▇▇▇▇ products, and also more ambitious moonshot research with neurotechnology. Like, predicting you’ll click on something before you do, basically mind reading. I was there for 3.5 years and left at the end of 2021, so I’m excited to experience how the last two years brought everything together. I’m really curious what made the cut and what will be released later on.

..

Generally as a whole, a lot of the work I did involved detecting the mental state of users based on data from their body and brain when they were in immersive experiences.

So, a user is in a mixed reality or virtual reality experience, and AI models are trying to predict if you are feeling curious, mind wandering, scared, paying attention, remembering a past experience, or some other cognitive state. And these may be inferred through measurements like eye tracking, electrical activity in the brain, heart beats and rhythms, muscle activity, blood density in the brain, blood pressure, skin conductance etc.

There were a lot of tricks involved to make specific predictions possible, which the handful of patents I’m named on go into detail about. One of the coolest results involved predicting a user was going to click on something before they actually did. That was a ton of work and something I’m proud of. Your pupil reacts before you click in part because you expect something will happen after you click. So you can create biofeedback with a user's brain by monitoring their eye behavior, and redesigning the UI in real time to create more of this anticipatory pupil response. It’s a crude brain computer interface via the eyes, but very cool. And I’d take that over invasive brain surgery any day.

Other tricks to infer cognitive state involved quickly flashing visuals or sounds to a user in ways they may not perceive, and then measuring their reaction to it.

Another patent goes into details about using machine learning and signals from the body and brain to predict how focused, or relaxed you are, or how well you are learning. And then updating virtual environments to enhance those states. So, imagine an adaptive immersive environment that helps you learn, or work, or relax by changing what you’re seeing and hearing in the background.

[The Yen Man]

I know they tried to do it as a selling feature, but the creepiest part of the promo was the dad taking pictures of his kids like a freak ha ha.