2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and then look at the Flames vs. all the other Canadians teams in terms of on-ice success, and we're the worst outside of the Sens.





...except the Senators have won more playoff rounds than us in recent years as well.

What extra playoff rounds have the Nucks, Oilers and Habs won the past 5 to 8 years that I’m missing?? On ice success for all canadian teams has been stagnant for 30+ years outside of a few miracle runs.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and then look at the Flames vs. all the other Canadians teams in terms of on-ice success, and we're the worst outside of the Sens.

...except the Senators have won more playoff rounds than us in recent years as well.

I'm not absolving the Flames for being where they are, but the Canadian teams overall do a poor job of committing to rebuilds or applying the patience required. Its my belief thats why we won't have a Canadian cup champion until it changes. They hit on a touch of success and thats it, rebuild over. Trade the picks.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, and then look at the Flames vs. all the other Canadians teams in terms of on-ice success, and we're the worst outside of the Sens.





...except the Senators have won more playoff rounds than us in recent years as well.

What Canadian team has had on ice success the last few years? Leafs have been good in the regular season, Flames had a 2nd overall year...both bad in the playoffs. Jets had a good season. Oilers, Montreal, Sens, Canucks, haven't been good.

One will get to the third round by default this year

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What Canadian team has had on ice success the last few years? Leafs have been good in the regular season, Flames had a 2nd overall year...both bad in the playoffs. Jets had a good season. Oilers, Montreal, Sens, Canucks, haven't been good

Kind of a mixture of playoff results and standings this season.

Beginning in 2005/2006:

- Calgary - 1 playoff rounds won, .481 point % this year
- Toronto - 0 playoff rounds won, .731 point % this year
- Ottawa - 7 playoff rounds won, .352 point % this year
- Edmonton - 4 playoff rounds won, .577 point % this year
- Vancouver - 7 playoff rounds won, .429 point % this year
- Winnipeg - 2 playoff rounds won, .646 point % this year
- Montreal - 6 playoff rounds won, .609 point % this year

2nd worst playoff results
3rd worst current in-season results

Add into that the fact that they have the lowest number of top-2 round draft selections in the last three years, and it's just not good.

This all proves out Toonage's point of the pressure that Canadian teams put on themselves, but it's also just crappy to see that the Flames are among the worst in a pretty crappy field.

[Toonage]

I think a great example of how Canadian teams approach rebuilds was Toronto from several years ago.

"Pain" was what Babcock warned the fanbase with.

That lasted a season.

[Monahammer]

I think it would feel even worse being one of Pelletier, Kuznetsov, or Zary and seeing that chart.

The pressure is really on- we are asking them to come here with few peers and lift the team from wherever it currently is. We are headed for an absolute disaster without some careful fixing.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Kind of a mixture of playoff results and standings this season.

Beginning in 2005/2006:

- Calgary - 1 playoff rounds won, .481 point % this year
- Toronto - 0 playoff rounds won, .731 point % this year
- Ottawa - 7 playoff rounds won, .352 point % this year
- Edmonton - 4 playoff rounds won, .577 point % this year
- Vancouver - 7 playoff rounds won, .429 point % this year
- Winnipeg - 2 playoff rounds won, .646 point % this year
- Montreal - 6 playoff rounds won, .609 point % this year

2nd worst playoff results
3rd worst current in-season results

Add into that the fact that they have the lowest number of top-2 round draft selections in the last three years, and it's just not good.

This all proves out Toonage's point of the pressure that Canadian teams put on themselves, but it's also just crappy to see that the Flames are among the worst in a pretty crappy field.

That's a really skewed way of looking at things. Holy crap. Someone keep the sharp objects away from ComixZone! The whole rounds won thing is pretty bogus. The whole thing is getting to the post-season, which Edmonton hasn't done in how long? How many 1st overalls have they had and still haven't done jack ####? I know its cool to crap all over the Flames right now, but if you're going to try and tell me, with a straight face, that ANYONE would suggest the tire fires of Edmonton and Ottawa are doing something right I would suggest you're high. Same could be said about Toronto. The Flames are having a brutal year and its because Treliving has messed the bed in so many ways, but the foundation for a good team is still there. Let's see what changes Sutter makes and how that impacts results before we fold the franchise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Kind of a mixture of playoff results and standings this season.

Beginning in 2005/2006:

- Calgary - 1 playoff rounds won, .481 point % this year
- Toronto - 0 playoff rounds won, .731 point % this year
- Ottawa - 7 playoff rounds won, .352 point % this year
- Edmonton - 4 playoff rounds won, .577 point % this year
- Vancouver - 7 playoff rounds won, .429 point % this year
- Winnipeg - 2 playoff rounds won, .646 point % this year
- Montreal - 6 playoff rounds won, .609 point % this year

2nd worst playoff results
3rd worst current in-season results

Add into that the fact that they have the lowest number of top-2 round draft selections in the last three years, and it's just not good.

This all proves out Toonage's point of the pressure that Canadian teams put on themselves, but it's also just crappy to see that the Flames are among the worst in a pretty crappy field.

I never said the Flames were good I said all Canadian teams have been bad...these are cherry picked stats though. You are going back 14 seasons for playoffs (one more season back adds 3 to the Flames) and only counting this regular season which has obviously been terrible. Win % over the last few seasons would have Calgary 2nd or third.

Every single team has drafted higher than Calgary except Vancouver

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's a really skewed way of looking at things. Holy crap. Someone keep the sharp objects away from ComixZone! The whole rounds won thing is pretty bogus. The whole thing is getting to the post-season, which Edmonton hasn't done in how long? How many 1st overalls have they had and still haven't done jack ####? I know its cool to crap all over the Flames right now, but if you're going to try and tell me, with a straight face, that ANYONE would suggest the tire fires of Edmonton and Ottawa are doing something right I would suggest you're high. Same could be said about Toronto. The Flames are having a brutal year and its because Treliving has messed the bed in so many ways, but the foundation for a good team is still there. Let's see what changes Sutter makes and how that impacts results before we fold the franchise.

Yeah, I'm excited for what Sutter can do - but, all that post shows is current winning %, which we are 3rd worst, and playoff success in the "modern era", which we're 2nd worst.

I do struggle to see what foundation you're mentioning when you say the foundation for a good team is here, but we'll see - this is the first time these core players have had a top-end NHL head coach (and I'd argue for a number of them, it'll be the first time they've played for a bonafide NHL head coach).

I view Sutter, Markstrom, Valimaki, and Andersson as the foundational players in place. A top-end coach, a top-end goalie, and what I think will be a very good #1 and #2 defencemen for years to come.

Originally Posted by dino7c

I never said the Flames were good I said all Canadian teams have been bad...these are cherry picked stats though. You are going back 14 seasons for playoffs (one more season back adds 3 to the Flames) and only counting this regular season which has obviously been terrible. Win % over the last few seasons would have Calgary 2nd or third.

I think 2018/2019 unfairly slants such a small sample size in favour of Calgary. I included what is generally thought of us as the "modern era", the post-2004/2005 lockout timeline.

Remove the winning % this season, and look at the playoff success then. We have the 2nd worst results since the start of the 2005/2006 season - and yeah, no one has glowing results, but we've still managed to be 2nd worst.

[Psytic]

The only thing separating us and TO / EDM is they lucked out on some super star picks. I would argue Winnipeg is looking like the only Canadian team that has been successful in building the right way. Flames should maybe look at them as the odds of us getting a McDavid or Matthews is slim.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I'm excited for what Sutter can do - but, all that post shows is current winning %, which we are 3rd worst, and playoff success in the "modern era", which we're 2nd worst.

I do struggle to see what foundation you're mentioning when you say the foundation for a good team is here, but we'll see - this is the first time these core players have had a top-end NHL head coach (and I'd argue for a number of them, it'll be the first time they've played for a bonafide NHL head coach).

I view Sutter, Markstrom, Valimaki, and Andersson as the foundational players in place. A top-end coach, a top-end goalie, and what I think will be a very good #1 and #2 defencemen for years to come.



I think 2018/2019 unfairly slants such a small sample size in favour of Calgary. I included what is generally thought of us as the "modern era", the post-2004/2005 lockout timeline.

Remove the winning % this season, and look at the playoff success then. We have the 2nd worst results since the start of the 2005/2006 season - and yeah, no one has glowing results, but we've still managed to be 2nd worst.

Remove the Flames best season and cut it off one season before the Flames last playoff run...not cherry picking at all lol. Things are bad enough.

Might want to compare the Flames and Oilers winning % over the last decade.

The Flames actual problem is they haven't been bad enough. Everyone other than Vancouver has drafted higher.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I'm excited for what Sutter can do - but, all that post shows is current winning %, which we are 3rd worst, and playoff success in the "modern era", which we're 2nd worst.

I do struggle to see what foundation you're mentioning when you say the foundation for a good team is here, but we'll see - this is the first time these core players have had a top-end NHL head coach (and I'd argue for a number of them, it'll be the first time they've played for a bonafide NHL head coach).

I view Sutter, Markstrom, Valimaki, and Andersson as the foundational players in place. A top-end coach, a top-end goalie, and what I think will be a very good #1 and #2 defencemen for years to come.

Step away from the ledge. The components are there, the coaches just have to pull their heads out of their asses and go with what has proven successful in the past rather than trying to make something happen that just isn't happening (that's so fetch!).

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm was one of the most dynamic and dangerous lines in the NHL. But for some reason someone decided that they needed to #### with success and break it up. I just don't get it. When Edmonton gets down they immediately put McHobo and German Gretzky together, because they are successful. Why the hell can't the Flames?

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane was a line that had people talking about them being the first line for a while. These guys are a great second option. They have a proven track record. Why screw with it?

Lucic-Bennett-Dube showed they could wreak havoc out there and produce! Again, why not keep this rolling?

Nordstrom-Ryan-Ritchie has looked good in every game they've played. I mean, the 4th line isn't that crucial, but they have looked great. Why not keep this rolling?

The blueline is fine, they just need to retask some ice time assignments and get guys with combos where will be more successful. Gio doesn't need to be out there as much and especially against the top lines. He's still a good player, he just needs to stop having the coaching staff lean on him. Beyond that, the make up of the blueline is solid.

The problem is the coaching staff have been trying to out think themselves and prove themselves the smartest guys in the room, when they are actually the dumbest guys in the room. Keep it simple. If something works, don't #### with it! The component are there, they just need to roll with it. I think Sutter is smart enough to find chemistry and stick with it. I expect an improvement. Unfortunately it happened too late in the season and for that Treliving should be shown the door.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Remove the Flames best season and cut it off one season before the Flames last playoff run...not cherry picking at all lol. Things are bad enough.

Might want to compare the Flames and Oilers winning % over the last decade.

The Flames actual problem is they haven't been bad enough. Everyone other than Vancouver has drafted higher.

I don’t disagree.

On the sample size, the game went through significant change after the 2005 lockout, so that’s how far I looked back.

...if we wanted to, we could grow the data set back further and it doesn’t do the Flames any real favours. 4 playoff rounds won since 1989, there’s no skewing of the data required - we all know the Flames have been an awful team. To tie it back to post about them only having three picks in the first two rounds over the last three seasons, it’s hard to see how this team improves from here on out without a significant alteration to their current path.

I think any trades this season should be geared towards prospects and picks. Have Darryl assess who should be here going forward, and trade away those who aren’t part of the plan for picks, prospects, and young roster players where possible.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Its all the Canadian teams really. Enormous pressure to win year in and year out.

Unless you're the Sens where saving money was their Stanley Cup.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Perhaps i am stubborn but I simply do not buy that argument. There are many teams in this league where fans will tune out if they are not a contender.

This is not true for Canadian teams.

Sure, but there are very few teams in the same media-bubble as the Canadian teams. I think it is more about the noise than it is the results.

But more to the point, I wonder how much of the Oilers stumbling around in a trackless wasteland of high draft picks for so many years has also struck the fear of god into the hearts of a lot of Canadian team officials.

[dammage79]

I agree with New Era. We have 3 forward line combos that work or have worked to great success . Them trying to "spread the wealth" and lock into forward pairs while slotting in pieces hasn't worked. And it's thrown everyone off.

If it ain't broke dont fix it. IDC if the Monny Johnny and Lindhol. Line fizzled a bit last year. Last year was a write off.

And lo and behold once all those line were reunited for 1 game they looked good again for the most part.

I hope Sutter understands that the foundation for success is already there, just have to adjust their work ethic. WORK ETHIC. That's the issue. Work ethic =consistency.

Also start trying Hanifin PP1 or Kylington on PP2 or actually, and I have no clue why other than favoritism but Nesterov should be QBing a pp unit.

[Knut]

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Sure, but there are very few teams in the same media-bubble as the Canadian teams. I think it is more about the noise than it is the results.

But more to the point, I wonder how much of the Oilers stumbling around in a trackless wasteland of high draft picks for so many years has also struck the fear of god into the hearts of a lot of Canadian team officials.

When we look at the incompetence of the Oilers, really the only thing they've done right is tank.

Almost every other part of their management has been done at a league-worst level.

Trading has been awful. Free agency has been fruitless if not a disaster. Drafting has been beyond ugly.

It should be pretty easy to assess the Oilers management and the takeaways should be pretty clear: Don't be the worst team managers/amateur scouts/professional scouts in the entire league.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don’t disagree.

On the sample size, the game went through significant change after the 2005 lockout, so that’s how far I looked back.

...if we wanted to, we could grow the data set back further and it doesn’t do the Flames any real favours. 4 playoff rounds won since 1989, there’s no skewing of the data required - we all know the Flames have been an awful team. To tie it back to post about them only having three picks in the first two rounds over the last three seasons, it’s hard to see how this team improves from here on out without a significant alteration to their current path.

I think any trades this season should be geared towards prospects and picks. Have Darryl assess who should be here going forward, and trade away those who aren’t part of the plan for picks, prospects, and young roster players where possible.

Nobody is saying the Flames have been good...using 14 years of playoffs and the 26 games of regular season was cherry picking stats big time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

When we look at the incompetence of the Oilers, really the only thing they've done right is tank.

Almost every other part of their management has been done at a league-worst level.

Trading has been awful. Free agency has been fruitless if not a disaster. Drafting has been beyond ugly.

It should be pretty easy to assess the Oilers management and the takeaways should be pretty clear: Don't be the worst team managers/amateur scouts/professional scouts in the entire league.

When I look at the incompetence of the Oilers I see nothing "right" at all. What I do see is them stumbling into the one of the most offensively gifted players of the last few generations through nothing at all beyond sheer luck.

Psytic is completely right: it takes an enormous amount of good fortune to assemble the necessary high-end talent that is required for building a championship team. As poor as the Flames have been at accumulating draft capital, they have been at least as unlucky.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Sure, but there are very few teams in the same media-bubble as the Canadian teams. I think it is more about the noise than it is the results.

But more to the point, I wonder how much of the Oilers stumbling around in a trackless wasteland of high draft picks for so many years has also struck the fear of god into the hearts of a lot of Canadian team officials.

Is the media bubble that intense in Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg? I'm not so sure it is. Compare it to a pro sports team (not NHL) in a major American city and it's not.

I'd say every team in cities like Philly, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh have a lot more scrutiny. They are comparable to TO and Montreal.

I don't have a great explanation for why Canadian teams haven't won in so long, beyond luck and things happening in cycles. And maybe some element is these cities are on many no trade lists.