Brad Treliving needs to go

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Hartley had a poor team at the end of it's competitive window and into a rebuild. Ward has a way better team several years after a partial rebuild.

OK...so would it not behoove the team and its fans to see how that plays out?

Dude has coached 61 NHL regular season games...with a winning record.

What is the issue?

[Jacks]

Bizarro world here, coaches who have had success are unworthy but coaches who have had no success just need a couple more years.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I will ask the same question: why put so much effort into the absurd notion that Bob Hartley is a good NHL coach? He can't even get an assistant's job, which is something that even Gulutzan has done, and something that Ward will do when his time here is over.

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I imagine he could if he wanted to, re: bolded. He's probably not interested in being an assistant. He's won a championship as a head coach at nearly every level - CHL, AHL, NHL, Swiss-A... he probably doesn't want to be anyone's assistant. That plus he and Cloutier are a package deal. He'd probably rather continue trying for Gagarin cup to add to his own list of accomplishments.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I will ask the same question: why put so much effort into the absurd notion that Bob Hartley is a good NHL coach? He can't even get an assistant's job, which is something that even Gulutzan has done, and something that Ward will do when his time here is over.

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Your opening position is that it is an absurd notion that a guy with a Cup and a Jack Adams might be a ‘good coach’?

That is your starting point?

We all know how the pendulum has swung towards coaches with a softer touch. And Assistant coaches often are ‘good cop’, helping with framing tough decisions his head coach makes

Was Scotty Bowman a ‘good coach’? Hint: he is not what players are asking for now

This thread is full of extremely hot and extraordinarily absurd takes. And they are not mine

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Bizarro world here, coaches who have had success are unworthy but coaches who have had no success just need a couple more years.

LOL....what?

Hartley had great years...he had terrible years. Thing is he was given time to show both.

Ward has had ZERO years....hard to show either great or terrible i that time frame...lol.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Hartley had a poor team at the end of it's competitive window and into a rebuild. Ward has a way better team several years after a partial rebuild.

Hartley had a veteran team with good players at the beginning of his term and got poor results. He had the same (or better) team after his one playoff win and got terrible results.

Ward has a better team than Hartley did when he was fired, though Hartley had a better Gio, Hamilton, Frolik, Hudler for 3/4 of the year, Ferland. It was, on paper, improved from the year before, yet they did worse. Goaltending was bad. But also Wideman got way worse, Hudler stepped way back. So, factors.

I’m not arguing Ward v. Hartley. I’m arguing coaching v team, chance, luck, other teams, etc.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...so would it not behoove the team and its fans to see how that plays out?

Sure. Let's let it play out, and burn years off of good contracts to see if an unproven coach can get this team headed in the right direction. Don't look at the window of opportunity and think you have to take advantage of it. Spend to the max to get that shiny new Porsche, then take it to the community college to have the automotive class work on it. Makes sense.

Dude has coached 61 NHL regular season games...with a winning record.

Dude's team has looked terrible pretty much the whole time, especially against teams that any good. The guy has no answers to the questions that surround this team.

What is the issue?

Losing. More importantly, losing ugly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I imagine he could if he wanted to, re: bolded. He's probably not interested in being an assistant. He's won a championship as a head coach at nearly every level - CHL, AHL, NHL, Swiss-A... he probably doesn't want to be anyone's assistant. That plus he and Cloutier are a package deal. He'd probably rather continue trying for Gagarin cup to add to his own list of accomplishments.

I don’t think he’s been even asked, and he’d be stupid to refuse if he wants an NHL HC job ever again. His name has never come up, even with Vegas, and you’d think an expansion team would want to talk to a guy who supposedly was good at overachieving.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?

I’m saying both Fla and Vegas have moved on from him without missing a beat.

[Jacks]

This Firefox quoting thing is getting annoying.

Hartley had a veteran team with good players at the beginning of his term and got poor results. He had the same (or better) team after his one playoff win and got terrible results.

You have argued that team was crap and got lucky and now they are a veteran team with good players?
This is getting tiresome.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

This Firefox quoting thing is getting annoying.


You have argued that team was crap and got lucky and now they are a veteran team with good players?
This is getting tiresome.

No, those are two different years. You realize Hartley was here for two years before 2014-15 right? HIs first year he had a team with Iginla, Cammaleri, Tanguay, Jaybo, Hudler, Glencross, Stempniak, Backlund, as well as guys like Stajan who still could contribute back then, and a young Brodie. And our loaf those guys, only Iggy was “old” and even he had 5 years left in him (3 still very productive).

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah the organization had moved past the Darryl and soon Iggy regimes and the ownership mandated Keenan firing and subsequent hiring of Brent had backfired in their faces spectacularly. And frittered away three more years of the greatest Flame’s career.

Hartley was brought in for the conclusion, one last kick at the can, and to instill a culture with effort and accountability, as the GM blew it up. He succeeded with the team and circumstances he was given

Ward has a lot of talent to work with on this team, and the expectations should be high

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m saying both Fla and Vegas have moved on from him without missing a beat.

Would like to point out that the Panthers went with Bob Boughner, under-performed, then dumped him for Joel Quenneville. Gallant guided the Golden Knights to impressive results but was sacked last year with a 24-19-6 record and the reigns handed over to DeBoer. DeBoer, who had mixed success in New Jersey but great success in San Jose, has done a pretty great job with the Knights so far, going 26-9 with a very stacked hockey team. What is the common thread between these two teams? When a proven quantity was available, they jumped on it. Quenneville and DeBoer are no slouches. Geoff Ward shouldn't even be whispered in the same sentence as those two coaches. Ward isn't even in the same stratosphere as Gallant. Maybe Boughner.

[BigFlameDog]

I needed one more win out of Hartley that year. We were on vacation in the Anaheim area with our jerseys packed and plenty of good tickets available for game 5. So close.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Would like to point out that the Panthers went with Bob Boughner, under-performed, then dumped him for Joel Quenneville. Gallant guided the Golden Knights to impressive results but was sacked last year with a 24-19-6 record and the reigns handed over to DeBoer. DeBoer, who had mixed success in New Jersey but great success in San Jose, has done a pretty great job with the Knights so far, going 26-9 with a very stacked hockey team. What is the common thread between these two teams? When a proven quantity was available, they jumped on it. Quenneville and DeBoer are no slouches. Geoff Ward shouldn't even be whispered in the same sentence as those two coaches. Ward isn't even in the same stratosphere as Gallant. Maybe Boughner.

Again, you seem to think I am arguing in favour of Ward. I’m not.

At the same time, who did Boston, Pittsburgh, or TB go for to turn things around? I’m in favour of an experienced and well known coach just for the “I’m the boss, not you players” factor. But it’s not like plenty of teams haven’t gone with a guy with little NHL head coaching experience with great results.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Quenneville and DeBoer are no slouches. Geoff Ward shouldn't even be whispered in the same sentence as those two coaches.

The only poster who has done so is you.


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[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I needed one more win out of Hartley that year. We were on vacation in the Anaheim area with our jerseys packed and plenty of good tickets available for game 5. So close.

That series did go to game 5 in Anaheim. A typical Hartley game that year, they were dominated but kept it close and went to OT.

edit: I bet you're thinking of the GG series which was a sweep.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Again, you seem to think I am arguing in favour of Ward. I’m not.

At the same time, who did Boston, Pittsburgh, or TB go for to turn things around? I’m in favour of an experienced and well known coach just for the “I’m the boss, not you players” factor. But it’s not like plenty of teams haven’t gone with a guy with little NHL head coaching experience with great results.

Hmmmm. Picks Stanley Cup teams with rosters stacked with superstars and thinks that's the "norm." Okie dokie.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Hmmmm. Picks Stanley Cup teams with rosters stacked with superstars and thinks that's the "norm." Okie dokie.

Norm? Keep putting up them straw men.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The only poster who has done so is you.


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If you can't follow the flow of the conversation that's on you.

Sent from my GFY-1000 using a good old fashioned keyboard.