Tyler Toffoli is about to have a career year

[Flamesfan05]

There is no money to give Toffoli a raise even if they want to.

[Classic_Sniper]

Toffoli has been the biggest pleasant surprise for me this season. I didn’t like his performance down the stretch or in the playoffs last season, but he has been without a doubt the most prolific goal scorer and one shot threat for the team all season. The chemistry between him and Lindholm has been huge this season.

[D as in David]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1636606166095777792

[traptor]

Unfortunately we're now locked into huberdeau and kadri longterm. To a lesser extent you can add mangiapane and colemae. From a cap management perspective I don't think the flames can sign both lindholm and toffoli to big long term contracts.you have to add in the futurea of backlund, coronato, dube, zary and pelletier. Our top 9 is looking pretty full with not enough chairs for everyone. The flames need to make some hard decisions on who they see in their long term future.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by D as in David

https://twitter.com/user/status/1636606166095777792

Well, Lindy has definitely been close. I would personally put him above Backs but that's cool too. Outside of those three everyone has had a really poor year up front.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Well, Lindy has definitely been close. I would personally put him above Backs but that's cool too. Outside of those three everyone has had a really poor year up front.

Coleman is on pace for a career year. He has 32 points versus 33 for the whole last season.

Dube is 8 points more than previous his career high already. And he's matched his career best goal total.

Lewis FWIW is going to beat his whole last season pretty soon as well.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman is on pace for a career year. He has 32 points versus 33 for the whole last season.

Dube is 8 points more than previous his career high already. And he's matched his career best goal total.

Lewis FWIW is going to beat his whole last season pretty soon as well.

Now do Huberdeau

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman is on pace for a career year. He has 32 points versus 33 for the whole last season.

Dube is 8 points more than previous his career high already. And he's matched his career best goal total.

Lewis FWIW is going to beat his whole last season pretty soon as well.

Ok, sorry for forgetting Coleman in this. And I'd like to see Dube's points vs TOI measured. He's gotten a huge amount more opportunity this year, and has a pretty futile amount of additional points to show for it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jg13

Now do Huberdeau

Huberdeau, Markstrom, Vladar and Mangiapane. Just one of those guys doing better (or maybe add Kadri in), and the team's foirtunes are much better.

The good news is that IMO Markstrom and Huberdeau will rebound. I think Huberdeau will find a player to complement him and that some of his problem has been altitude (I think that affected Toffoli last season). and Markstrom has already shown he can.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Ok, sorry for forgetting Coleman in this. And I'd like to see Dube's points vs TOI measured. He's gotten a huge amount more opportunity this year, and has a pretty futile amount of additional points to show for it.

Well, he had 866:54 minutes all of last season and 13 goals and 10 assists in those minutes. So far this year he has 835 minutes, 13 goals and 19 assists.

Now, he's upped his linemates and his quality of icetime as well. But if anything to my eye, he's had a ton more chances and been robbed a lot. Even so his shooting percentage is way up this year.

[Enoch Root]

For me, Kadri has been a bigger part of the problem than Huberdeau. Yes, Kadri is getting his points, and will be close to expectations on that front. But his giveaways, undisciplined penalties, occasional laziness, and some bone-headed plays, especially in OT, have been destructive and momentum-killing.

Huberdeau hasn't produced. But he hasn't been a negative, just a lack of positive.

For me, it's Markstrom and Kadri that have been the most damaging this season.

[Major Major]

I really wonder if Kadri has been playing hurt/concussed since getting rocked by Trouba. Either that or he's having trouble with general fatigue from last year. Dude has not looked right for a while.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Huberdeau, Markstrom, Vladar and Mangiapane. Just one of those guys doing better (or maybe add Kadri in), and the team's foirtunes are much better.

The good news is that IMO Markstrom and Huberdeau will rebound. I think Huberdeau will find a player to complement him and that some of his problem has been altitude (I think that affected Toffoli last season). and Markstrom has already shown he can.

C'mon man this is getting to be a bit too much. You and I are never going to agree on Huberdeau and that's fine as we are on the polar opposite side of the spectrum. The truth about him probably lies somewhere in between.

But honestly it's getting a bit much the number of excuses that grow for this guy on a daily basis.

This has been some of the information that has been provided this season regarding his poor play:

1. Sutter and his system - Johnny and Tkachuk had career years but that is dismissed as outliers and that the coach has no clue how to handle a talented forward like Huberdeau. Even if you dismiss that, which is garbage imo, look at this current roster, Toffolli is having a career year and a guy like Backlund is creeping up on matching his career high as well.

2. Linemates - At the beginning of the year it was Lindholm who was the problem, but now that shifted to Kadri. Yet last night in a 7-2 win he ends up with one point and didn't look dangerous at all yet he is labelled as our star player and face of the franchise. Obviously then it's Lucic even though he's had games with other wingers and as expected limited results.

3. Ice Time - He's down from his average of over 19 minutes in Florida, but still getting nearly 17 here in Calgary (16:50). Last night he had the 3rd most ice time yet still didn't generate as much as Lindholm, Coleman & Toffolli (Only Lindholm & Backlund had more minutes).

4. Dissatisfaction - According to Lou from the Fan 960 he is still angry with Florida for trading him and hasn't adjusted to the trade.

5. Defensive Responsibility - His shifted his game to meet Sutter's insistence on defense first so this is why his offensive numbers are down. Is this really true, he's a minus player on the year.

6. Altitude - This is a HUGE stretch. Most runners take on average 14-30 days to adjust to altitude changes. This is a professional athlete who had an entire training camp and pre-season to get used to Calgary. Even if I agreed and said one month of poor production was expected, it doesn't excuse the rest of the season.

I'm not trying to diminish your credibility or throw you under the bus, but some of this Huberdeau defensiveness is getting out of hand. It's okay to admit that he hasn't been as advertised and he's having a bad year. If anything it speaks volumes to the fan base to recognize that he's underperformed and simply not good enough. There's no shame in admitting this.

If you still don't believe me let's pretend we went to an Oilers forum and saw them defending players by using excuses such as altitude or weather or any variety meaningless measures. We would be laughing and slamming them (for good reason) for their pitiful excuses.

Let's be better and just accept that fact that he's been poor this year. He's going to be a Flame for a long time and has the ability to turn this around (hell if he does, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong) and you know why, because when he's producing that means our favorite team has a good chance of winning. But until then we can accept the facts that he's' been poor and not try to make excuses. This is on the player and only he has the ability to figure this out.

[GioforPM]

Altitude ain’t a huge stretch. Toffoli took a loooong time to get acclimated. I don’t think you realize how hockey players train. Huberdeau (a) didn’t train here in the summer and (b) never trained in training camp. Because that’s not what training camp is about any more.

Your dismissive post demonstrates you are really just looking at counting stats. Yes he had one less point than Lindholm, but he was directly in on at least one goal where he didn’t get a point.

No one is saying he’s been good. But there are definite reasons. It’s not just a matter of him deciding to play better.

BTW, Peter Loubardias is a good guy and knowledgeable about minor hockey. But he is definitely not an insider.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

C'mon man this is getting to be a bit too much. You and I are never going to agree on Huberdeau and that's fine as we are on the polar opposite side of the spectrum. The truth about him probably lies somewhere in between.

But honestly it's getting a bit much the number of excuses that grow for this guy on a daily basis.

This has been some of the information that has been provided this season regarding his poor play:

1. Sutter and his system - Johnny and Tkachuk had career years but that is dismissed as outliers and that the coach has no clue how to handle a talented forward like Huberdeau. Even if you dismiss that, which is garbage imo, look at this current roster, Toffolli is having a career year and a guy like Backlund is creeping up on matching his career high as well.

2. Linemates - At the beginning of the year it was Lindholm who was the problem, but now that shifted to Kadri. Yet last night in a 7-2 win he ends up with one point and didn't look dangerous at all yet he is labelled as our star player and face of the franchise. Obviously then it's Lucic even though he's had games with other wingers and as expected limited results.

3. Ice Time - He's down from his average of over 19 minutes in Florida, but still getting nearly 17 here in Calgary (16:50). Last night he had the 3rd most ice time yet still didn't generate as much as Lindholm, Coleman & Toffolli (Only Lindholm & Backlund had more minutes).

4. Dissatisfaction - According to Lou from the Fan 960 he is still angry with Florida for trading him and hasn't adjusted to the trade.

5. Defensive Responsibility - His shifted his game to meet Sutter's insistence on defense first so this is why his offensive numbers are down. Is this really true, he's a minus player on the year.

6. Altitude - This is a HUGE stretch. Most runners take on average 14-30 days to adjust to altitude changes. This is a professional athlete who had an entire training camp and pre-season to get used to Calgary. Even if I agreed and said one month of poor production was expected, it doesn't excuse the rest of the season.

I'm not trying to diminish your credibility or throw you under the bus, but some of this Huberdeau defensiveness is getting out of hand. It's okay to admit that he hasn't been as advertised and he's having a bad year. If anything it speaks volumes to the fan base to recognize that he's underperformed and simply not good enough. There's no shame in admitting this.

If you still don't believe me let's pretend we went to an Oilers forum and saw them defending players by using excuses such as altitude or weather or any variety meaningless measures. We would be laughing and slamming them (for good reason) for their pitiful excuses.

Let's be better and just accept that fact that he's been poor this year. He's going to be a Flame for a long time and has the ability to turn this around (hell if he does, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong) and you know why, because when he's producing that means our favorite team has a good chance of winning. But until then we can accept the facts that he's' been poor and not try to make excuses. This is on the player and only he has the ability to figure this out.

This is kind of like the season where Tkachuk just didn't seem to have interest and didn’t start to play his game until he was put on the top line. I am with the group that thinks he is holding back just like I thought Tkachuk was holding back. Not wanting to make excuses but wonder if Huberdeau and Kadri are out of shape. We saw how some of our players struggled under Sutter when he first arrived but had much more pace the next season?

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Altitude ain’t a huge stretch. Toffoli took a loooong time to get acclimated. I don’t think you realize how hockey players train. Huberdeau (a) didn’t train here in the summer and (b) never trained in training camp. Because that’s not what training camp is about any more.

Your dismissive post demonstrates you are really just looking at counting stats. Yes he had one less point than Lindholm, but he was directly in on at least one goal where he didn’t get a point.

No one is saying he’s been good. But there are definite reasons. It’s not just a matter of him deciding to play better.

BTW, Peter Loubardias is a good guy and knowledgeable about minor hockey. But he is definitely not an insider.

Not sure what you mean by he didn't train here in training camp. There was articles written as early as Sept 8 in the Sun where it said he had some good looks in main camp. He was participating in drills etc (unless I'm missing your point).

We will have to agree to disagree on the altitude factor. Like I said, I could maybe buy your argument for the first month of the season but after that it becomes a stretch.

I would say Lou is very connected to the team and probably knows more about Flames news then some national insiders like Friedman or *Cringe* Frank Seravalli. I wouldn't say it's unrealistic for him to be in the loop of Flames news.

But anyways I think you and I have beaten this topic to death. We clearly have different views on the player. I don't want to re-hash the same arguments over and over and annoy the forum with our debate. I'm probably going to remain silent on the topic until the season is over and done with and then we can discuss our perspectives again.

I hope you didn't take offence to my posts because that was not my intention (we just have different views). I actually like the content and information you provide even if we don't see eye to eye on certain topics.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Not sure what you mean by he didn't train here in training camp. There was articles written as early as Sept 8 in the Sun where it said he had some good looks in main camp. He was participating in drills etc (unless I'm missing your point).

We will have to agree to disagree on the altitude factor. Like I said, I could maybe buy your argument for the first month of the season but after that it becomes a stretch.

I would say Lou is very connected to the team and probably knows more about Flames news then some national insiders like Friedman or *Cringe* Frank Seravalli. I wouldn't say it's unrealistic for him to be in the loop of Flames news.

But anyways I think you and I have beaten this topic to death. We clearly have different views on the player. I don't want to re-hash the same arguments over and over and annoy the forum with our debate. I'm probably going to remain silent on the topic until the season is over and done with and then we can discuss our perspectives again.

I hope you didn't take offence to my posts because that was not my intention (we just have different views). I actually like the content and information you provide even if we don't see eye to eye on certain topics.

My point is that training camp is not about fitness.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Huberdeau, Markstrom, Vladar and Mangiapane. Just one of those guys doing better (or maybe add Kadri in), and the team's foirtunes are much better.

The good news is that IMO Markstrom and Huberdeau will rebound. I think Huberdeau will find a player to complement him and that some of his problem has been altitude (I think that affected Toffoli last season). and Markstrom has already shown he can.

I agree with the belief they will rebound, but altitude effects only last as long as your body takes to produce additional hemoglobin, approximately 2 weeks, I believe.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blender

I agree with the belief they will rebound, but altitude effects only last as long as your body takes to produce additional hemoglobin, approximately 2 weeks, I believe.

Well, he might not have been in “Flames” shape to begin with. Toffoli was gassed early in shifts from when he got here right to the end of the season. Huberdeau still seems to take ultra short shifts. Toffoli seems fine now. We’ll see about Huberdeau next year. IIRC Sutter complained about conditioning generally when he took over from Ward, so maybe it’s just that his style needs more.

TBF, Weegar doesn’t seem to be gassed at all.

[Hack&Lube]

Tyler Folli is now tied with Johnny hockey for points this season.