Coronavirus All-Purpose Thread: The Second Wave

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Vax has been ready for 60 days. We are getting people vaccinated at an incredibly pathetic pace for a G7 country. The vaccine us literally the only thing that's going to stop the cycle of spikes and lockdowns. Trudeau is 12 months late to domestic production. This is all on the federal government. No excuses. Sorry. You have the talent, capital and economy to get this thing going and you completely ####ed it. There is no one else to blame guys.

12 months, lol. The facility the UK is producing the majority of their doses in was started in 2018 and was just producing doses in any kind of quantity at the end of 2020, so they took almost 2.5 years to get there.

[MoneyGuy]

NZ has an advantage as an island but couldn’t Canada have achieved a similar thing by locking down the border to vehicle and air traffic to make the country like an island?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Vax has been ready for 60 days. We are getting people vaccinated at an incredibly pathetic pace for a G7 country. The vaccine us literally the only thing that's going to stop the cycle of spikes and lockdowns. Trudeau is 12 months late to domestic production. This is all on the federal government. No excuses. Sorry. You have the talent, capital and economy to get this thing going and you completely ####ed it. There is no one else to blame guys.

Who says we need to blame anyone though? I feel like the vaccine procurement has been about as good as we can expect. Canada was never going to get more/faster than the global powers so, once you accept that, we’re doing fine.

And sure, we should have domestic production. We don’t. The point is to get vaccines here regardless though, and that’s happening.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Slava

Who says we need to blame anyone though? I feel like the vaccine procurement has been about as good as we can expect. Canada was never going to get more/faster than the global powers so, once you accept that, we’re doing fine.



And sure, we should have domestic production. We don’t. The point is to get vaccines here regardless though, and that’s happening.

Like the super powers of Bahrain, Serbia and Chile? Or Malta and Turkey?

There's definitely blame to go around and the buck stops at our federal government.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nty-worldwide/

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by chedder

Like the super powers of Bahrain, Serbia and Chile? Or Malta and Turkey?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nty-worldwide/

Every one of those countries except for Malta (who is covered by the EU's agreements) uses vaccines from Russia and China with fairly limited trial data and manufacturing oversight (and no 3rd party peer review in the case of China's vaccines). Would you be comfortable using those yourself?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Every one of those countries except for Malta (who is covered by the EU's agreements) uses vaccines from Russia and China with fairly limited trial data and manufacturing oversight (and no 3rd party peer review in the case of China's vaccines). Would you be comfortable using those yourself?

Fair enough. So then Israel, Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway.

The point was that we're embarrassingly far down that list of vaccinations per 100 people after all of Trudeau's blabbering about how much vaccine he had secured.

Or do those not count because they're part of the EU?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by chedder

Fair enough. So then Israel, Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway.

The point was that we're embarrassingly far down that list of vaccinations per 100 people after all of Trudeau's blabbering about how much vaccine he had secured.

Or do those not count because they're part of the EU?

It's not that they "don't count", but they're all (other than Switzerland) part of one agreement involving countries with nearly 500M people combined and which has domestic manufacturing within its bloc. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison, particularly given that Canada was ahead of those countries initially but fell behind primarily due to EU-based production delays that the EU was able to use its leverage as a vaccine producer to avoid being affected by. If Canada was manufacturing doses then we could reap the same advantage, but we're not.

And it's also worth contextualizing the differences in doses administered. Canada is getting about .25-.30 doses per 100 people a day for the rest of Q1, so the difference between Canada and a place like Germany, is 6-7 days of supply; and the difference between Canada and Iceland, is about 12 days of supply. It's a difference to be sure, but it's fairly minor when you consider our supply of doses was severely hampered for almost a month.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by chedder

Fair enough. So then Israel, Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway.

The point was that we're embarrassingly far down that list of vaccinations per 100 people after all of Trudeau's blabbering about how much vaccine he had secured.

Or do those not count because they're part of the EU?

We don’t have the information to evaluate performance yet. End of Q1 I think is a reasonable time to check in on the scoreboard.

We’re you happy when it was announced in December that we would have 6 million Q1 doses and everyone vaccinated by end of September?

I was.

Nothing has changed since then.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

NZ has an advantage as an island but couldn’t Canada have achieved a similar thing by locking down the border to vehicle and air traffic to make the country like an island?

impossible. we're too linked to the US for that to happen and our supply chain would be destroyed.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

impossible. we're too linked to the US for that to happen and our supply chain would be destroyed.

Well, you don’t do it to supply lines obviously. People (for whatever reason they choose) have been allowed to freely move in and out of this country since pandemic day 1. No restrictions if you drove. Ridiculous.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Well, you don’t do it to supply lines obviously. People (for whatever reason they choose) have been allowed to freely move in and out of this country since pandemic day 1. No restrictions if you drove. Ridiculous.

Land crossings have been completely closed since day 1 other than to returning Canadians. And obviously open to essential travel (supply chain etc).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Land crossings have been completely closed since day 1 other than to returning Canadians. And obviously open to essential travel (supply chain etc).

Yeah I was unnecessarily exaggerating which isn’t helpful... but we’ve seen issues with people “just passing through” in the Rockies, and in Ontario. And not requiring Canadians to quarantine if they drove (until this month?). The handling of the border has been the biggest mixed bag of guess work.

[bigtmac19]

The Local head of the health unit in Windsor blames many of our cases in the early days on health care workers crossing the border daily to work in Detroit hospitals. There are still thousands of them crossing each day, let alone all the truck drivers. I'm hoping at least the HCW working in Michigan are getting vaccinated soon (or have been)

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Neither is the United States to Canada, in any capacity.

Agreed. Didn't suggest otherwise. And for the opposite reason more critical for the US to get doses in arms so Americans quit dropping like flies

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

The Local head of the health unit in Windsor blames many of our cases in the early days on health care workers crossing the border daily to work in Detroit hospitals. There are still thousands of them crossing each day, let alone all the truck drivers.

Can anyone explain the logic of living in one country and working in another every day? Or is it a case of double dipping and "having your cake and eating it too"?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Can anyone explain the logic of living in one country and working in another every day? Or is it a case of double dipping and "having your cake and eating it too"?

People do it for many reasons. Better job across the border but you are not eligible to live in the US, some may actually be citizens of the country they work in but actually live in the other country (married someone etc.). In the case of Ontario many health care workers left the province years ago in the Bob Rae days when they lost their jobs. If you lived in Windsor you may have found work across the river in Michigan and would not have had to move.

[burn_this_city]

Places like Windsor have a ton of dual citizen families living on both sides of the border. Half my family there lives in Michigan. It's only a short tunnel to Detroit so working on that side isn't a stretch in normal times. Detroit struggles with a lack of nurses so they've heavily recruited from Windsor/Essex.

[Dentoman]

I'm no fan of the present federal government in general, but when it comes to vaccine procurement and roll out, I think they are doing as good of a job as can be expected. Our only option was to throw as many darts at the dart board as you can and hope for a treble 20 .... so far, I think they have hit a treble 15, can't complain about that.

[CroFlames]

To me its as simple as Canada is a G7 country. We should be (at least) top 7 in vaccinations per capita right now while simultaneously helping with the logistics of vaccinating the third world.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by chedder

Fair enough. So then Israel, Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway.

The point was that we're embarrassingly far down that list of vaccinations per 100 people after all of Trudeau's blabbering about how much vaccine he had secured.

Or do those not count because they're part of the EU?

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's not that they "don't count", but they're all (other than Switzerland) part of one agreement involving countries with nearly 500M people combined and which has domestic manufacturing within its bloc. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison, particularly given that Canada was ahead of those countries initially but fell behind primarily due to EU-based production delays that the EU was able to use its leverage as a vaccine producer to avoid being affected by. If Canada was manufacturing doses then we could reap the same advantage, but we're not.

And it's also worth contextualizing the differences in doses administered. Canada is getting about .25-.30 doses per 100 people a day for the rest of Q1, so the difference between Canada and a place like Germany, is 6-7 days of supply; and the difference between Canada and Iceland, is about 12 days of supply. It's a difference to be sure, but it's fairly minor when you consider our supply of doses was severely hampered for almost a month.

Norway and Iceland are also not part of the EU. Nor is Israel, obviously. From that list, only Denmark is an EU state.