"Yes, your political views are evidence-based, but have you thought about better aligning yourself with people who believe the COVID vaccine is being used in conjunction with 5G towers to depopulate the planet?"
I’m not aligning myself with populists. Just pointing out how their opponents play right into their hands. It’s pretty easy to sell a political message that the educated professional class have contempt for you and don’t want you to have a say in government when they do actually express contempt for you and say they wish you didn’t have a say in government.
Working-class nonwhite men shifting to right-wing populism is concerning, don’t you think? Calling them gullible rubes isn’t going to win them back, so maybe a different tack should be tried. One that doesn’t lean into dismissive elitism.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 04-10-2024 at 08:31 AM.
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I’m not aligning myself with populists. Just pointing out how their opponents play right into their hands. It’s pretty easy to sell a political message that the educated professional class have contempt for you and don’t want you to have a say in government when they do actually express contempt for you and say they wish you didn’t have a say in government.
Working-class nonwhite men shifting to right-wing populism is concerning, don’t you think? Calling them gullible rubes isn’t going to win them back, so maybe a different tack should be tried. One that doesn’t lean into dismissive elitism.
This is why the US is a kyithole country. Imagine being non-white and voting for a racist party.... all that misinformation works on idiots I guess.
__________________ Peter12 "I'm no Trump fan but he is smarter than most if not everyone in this thread. ”
I’m not aligning myself with populists. Just pointing out how their opponents play right into their hands. It’s pretty easy to sell a political message that the educated professional class have contempt for you and don’t want you to have a say in government when they do actually express contempt for you and say they wish you didn’t have a say in government.
Working-class nonwhite men shifting to right-wing populism is concerning, don’t you think? Calling them gullible rubes isn’t going to win them back, so maybe a different tack should be tried. One that doesn’t lean into dismissive elitism.
Good luck with selling that here!
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Originally Posted by Poe969
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
Working-class nonwhite men shifting to right-wing populism is concerning, don’t you think? Calling them gullible rubes isn’t going to win them back, so maybe a different tack should be tried. One that doesn’t lean into dismissive elitism.
At this point I'm not sure what the correct tactic is. There seem to be rather a lot of totally unreachable people in that category.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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At this point I'm not sure what the correct tactic is. There seem to be rather a lot of totally unreachable people in that category.
I've read no shortage of stories from sane people who have parents that have gone off the deep end. Their is no bringing them back. And if their own kid can't do it, what hope do we have? They are lost, lost.
It's perhaps best to show others how ####ing stupid they are in the hopes that those on the edge get the picture. Do you want to be a stupid ####ing moron that believes everything Donald goddamn Trump tells, or do you maybe want to back away from that? Does it work? I dunno. But it does feel a bit cathartic, a way to accept just how dumb and or evil a good section of humanity is.
At this point I'm not sure what the correct tactic is. There seem to be rather a lot of totally unreachable people in that category.
A good start is holding places like Fox News financially accountable for their straight lies. They are the media group with the largest amount of disinformation and most ill-informed voters.
The Dominion lawsuit caused a dramatic shift in their coverage. If you consistently did this they would be forced back towards reality.
Yale published a whitepaper indicating if you show Fox News viewers something else (even something as middling as CNN), their opinions do actively change over time. So they may not be brainwashed forever.
To test this argument, we used data on actual TV viewership to recruit a sample of regular Fox News viewers and incentivized a randomized treatment group to watch CNN instead for a month. Contrary to predictions from motivated reasoning, watching CNN caused substantial learning and moderated participants’ attitudes in covered domains. We close by discussing challenges partisan media may pose for democracy.
Hit em in the wallet. It's the only language they understand.
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At this point I'm not sure what the correct tactic is. There seem to be rather a lot of totally unreachable people in that category.
Making school more appealing to boys might help. I expect there’s a pretty big overlap between men who don’t trust experts at 35 and men who resented and hated school as boys. The widening political gap between men and women (not just in the U.S. but in every developed country) has coincided with the widening gender gap in educational attainment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 04-10-2024 at 12:29 PM.
Working-class nonwhite men shifting to right-wing populism is concerning, don’t you think? Calling them gullible rubes isn’t going to win them back, so maybe a different tack should be tried. One that doesn’t lean into dismissive elitism.
I've actually said a couple times in the last couple of months that I agree with you on this topic. You can't just dismiss all of these folks as racist, bigoted morons, because the demographic evidence doesn't support it, and it's ineffective anyways.
This is what I posted last week and I still stand by it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
I'm not blaming Biden for anything. I was simply giving an example of why some voters, who have always voted Democrat, are moving to Trump.
I can't stand Bill Maher, but he's not totally wrong in that video calgarygeologist posted. Whatever the Democrats are doing, it's not connecting with working class voters and it's overly simplistic and arrogant to dismiss those voters as just being duped by GOP propaganda.
You can't expect every voter to be an uber-informed politico. For most people politics is local, and it's as simple as "Is my life better or worse than it was four years ago?"
That said, I also don't think educated "elites" should abandon the positions that are important to them either just to win votes. That's exactly how the overton window has shifted so far right in the U.S. since the Reagan years.
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While for many it’s obvious how serious Trump’s declining mental capacity has become, for too many Americans that reality has not yet broken through. The media continues to treat Trump like a normal candidate; many Americans have baked Trump’s bizarre behavior into their perceptions of him; and many take right-wing lies about Joe Biden’s mental fitness at face value.
Given this, we wanted to hear from John Gartner, founder of Duty To Warn, a group of mental health professionals who have been raising the alarm about Trump’s increasingly sociopathic behavior since 2017. Now in 2024, Gartner has an even more dire warning about Trump: that there are increasing signs the former president is heading fast down the road toward dementia.
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People need to understand dementia is a progressive illness, which means the Trump you see today is the best Trump you’re ever going to see. It’s all downhill from here. Trump’s rate of decline is accelerating, and if he’s typical, at some point, he will “fall off a cognitive cliff” and become completely disabled.
John Stewart, on point, again as has been mentioned by many. Lots of good content in the video, mostly centered around the leveling of Gaza by Israel but also the hypocrisy of the US saying one thing in one situation and then acting in an opposing way in another. Rules for thee, but not for me (or my buddy, Israel).
I've actually said a couple times in the last couple of months that I agree with you on this topic. You can't just dismiss all of these folks as racist, bigoted morons, because the demographic evidence doesn't support it, and it's ineffective anyways.
This is what I posted last week and I still stand by it:
That said, I also don't think educated "elites" should abandon the positions that are important to them either just to win votes. That's exactly how the overton window has shifted so far right in the U.S. since the Reagan years.
Most important two sentences in this discussion. The last few years has been nothing but
1. The left needs to respect the right/alt right views and their people or they'll never change, and;
2. The left needs to change their goals and ideals and give to the right in order to bring the sides together, otherwise they're adding to the division.
You have to give it to the right, they nailed the political game in an impressive way. The right does nothing but promote disgusting, abhorrent, divisive views and bills and pushes that further and further each year.
But they've convinced us as a society that the problem is not them becoming more disgusting and extremist by the day.....it's the left for.....literally any response they have to anything. We're so stupid as a people. But any number of intelligent people have predicted it was coming to exactly this.
Weird how some on here that would support the theories of where our society was headed in terms of division are also foolishly condemning the left for not playing their proper part in the rights game as if that matters, lol. Not naming names.
Last edited by jayswin; 04-14-2024 at 01:04 AM.
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You have to give it to the right, they nailed the political game in an impressive way. The right does nothing but promote disgusting, abhorrent, divisive views and bills and pushes that further and further each year.
But they've convinced us as a society that the problem is not them becoming more disgusting and extremist by the day.....it's the left for.....literally any response they have to anything. We're so stupid as a people. But any number of intelligent people have predicted it was coming to exactly this.
Weird how some on here that would support the theories of where our society was headed in terms of division are also foolishly condemning the left for not playing their proper part in the rights game as if that matters, lol. Not naming names.
It’s not that we are stupid as a people, but we as a species still act not that much different than we did in the time of cavemen. What I mean by that is our fight or flight response and against things that are a threat to us. The dynamics of the world are changing pretty quickly but in the us this means the people who have generally held power - white, male, Christians - are losing that power. So they’ve latched on to this progressiveness is evil and will destroy society. They then seize in the most ridiculous examples of that to stoke the fires of people who feel threatened and left behind.
The question that I keep coming back to and struggle to answer is what to do about. Continue to call people deplorable, isn’t likely to do it, even if it’s true. The underlying attraction to this is self defence like I said, but I also don’t know how to combat that. I guess to turn it back to Trump it is largely on him. He is perfectly appealing to this base nature and I willing to lie and perpetuate a fraud in pursuit not of a greater good, but his own personal gain. It’s what makes him dangerous. I could disagree with republicans before but at least they weren’t lying about plainly obvious things, like the election was stolen crap.
Long meandering post, too early in the morning. I’m frustrated and saddened by where this is heading.
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Trump knows this about me and my fellow MAGA loyalists. We aren’t him, but we believe we might yet become him. And if “him” is getting put in prison, that’s very bad for “we.”
Anything bad for we is utterly unacceptable, because we, like him, are both deeply religious and care only about ourselves.
Back in February, Trump told Fox News: “Anytime I get indicted, it’s an honor because I’m doing it for you.”
I can’t thank him enough for that. As I gazed at Monday’s news coverage of his first day in court, I felt such gratitude that he was willing to sit there and reportedly nod off at times while allowing himself to be tried on falsifying business records in an effort to illegally influence the 2016 presidential election.
I knew right then that should I ever be accused of falsifying business records in an effort to illegally influence a presidential election, Trump will have come before me, my shield and my armor.
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