American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

The thing you're missing is that Biden is the nominee.

Are there better people than Biden to be president? If there are, they aren't running.

To campaign and decry Biden in a two-party system is an endorsement of the other candidate. You might not mean it to be, you might not think that should be the case, you might hate the other option more. However, in reality it ends up being black and white, 1s and 0s, this or that. There is no grey area.

At this point to be anti-Biden is pro-Trump. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

The last election proved that you can't critique one candidate while silently hating the other. That's what happened to Hillary, and why the US is in the mess it's in currently.

Yes, thank you.

We already drove Hillary Clinton away, and love her or not, she would have been one of the most accomplished and intelligent leaders the U.S. would have had in decades.

We all wish that our guy/gal could be the nominee. I had my favorites too, and they were not Biden. However, he's a very good human being, he knows how to govern responsibly, and he'll even try to implement a more progressive health plan. To me, that's still a major win and moves things in the right direction.

He may not even run for a second term depending on his age/health, so there's room for someone to come in and follow up his presidency of being a caretaker and implementing a recovery, to then implement even more progressive policies. He's not going to be in office forever, but he's clearly a step in the right direction. If people can't see that because he's not pure enough for them, then I'm sorry, but those people are idiots.

If and when he takes the office, feel free to criticize away. It's the job of the president to take fair criticism. Just wait until he gets the job to do so.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Ok, but if we're actually being intellectually honest here, how does criticizing Biden brushing off a question about a cognitive test and calling him senile encourage him to move further left? And how is it "a gaffe"?

Fair point on the question. Regarding the second, you don't think comparing a cognitive test for a presidential candidate, who has shown some pretty alarming indications of cognitive decline, with drug-testing an interviewer for cocaine, while also dropping the term "junkies" in 2020 is problematic?

EDIT: I'd also add that him using the term "junkies" and his consistent stance on marijuana legalization paints a pretty accurate depiction of where he's going to end up regarding the war on drugs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Fair point on the question. Regarding the second, you don't think comparing a cognitive test for a presidential candidate, who has shown some pretty alarming indications of cognitive decline, with drug-testing an interviewer for cocaine, while also dropping the term "junkies" in 2020 is problematic?

EDIT: I'd also add that him using the term "junkies" and his consistent stance on marijuana legalization paints a pretty accurate depiction of where he's going to end up regarding the war on drugs.

I think pretending a 77-year-old man using the term "junkies" is an indication of his entire party's policy decisions on drugs is a pretty big reach.

Is it problematic? Sure. Is it really relevant? No.

The analogy was awkward, but the point was obviously that if you get tested for drugs, the perception is that you might be a drug user, and if you get tested for dementia, the perception is that you might have dementia. Whether you want to question his cognitive ability or not, Biden taking a dementia test would be ridiculous at this stage and a zero gain for him, because the very fact that one requires that test confirms it's a possibility, and that's not something anyone running for president would want to confirm.

It's the same reason it's ridiculous that Trump not only admits to needing the test, but also to how well he did.

I don't see how you view it as an unforced error. If Trump said "why would I take a cognitive test, that'd be like taking a drug test for someone that doesn't do drugs" he'd be made fun of, because that's what we do, but it's not like anyone would view that as a "gaffe" or unforced error. We get petty with Trump because at this point, we're grasping for straws and there isn't much left. But there's little reason to get petty with Biden.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

This is what crazy town sounds like. Biden is going to hurt god?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1291433664774012928

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

My far left candidate? The Fox Newsian attacks on anyone who says anything not pro Biden by immediately accusing them of being a Bernie Bro is Republican 101. It’s a bit disappointing but not surprising watching so many people not grasp that they’ve become what they hate.

Trump has already rewritten the rules, you’re playing by them, and you don’t even realise it.

Everyone that hates Trump is not a lefty...I think someone closer to the center is better for the country.

I also notice you guys never admit who you think a better candidate would be

Lets have it, who would you rather? The rules are the rules...if you can't win you are irrelevant

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Biden attends church regularly. When is the last time Trump went anywhere near a church other than to get a photo op?

Hilarious to attack him on that.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Biden attends church regularly. When is the last time Trump went anywhere near a church other than to get a photo op?

Hilarious to attack him on that.

Still going to work with at least 35% of the country.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Still going to work with at least 35% of the country.

True but they are already voting for Trump

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think pretending a 77-year-old man using the term "junkies" is an indication of his entire party's policy decisions on drugs is a pretty big reach.

Is it problematic? Sure. Is it really relevant? No.

Pretty sure the president has a fairly influential role in setting policy for the party. The guy with a career record of enthusiastically supporting the war on drugs, voting in favour of minimum sentencing, still against marijuana legalization, etc., etc., using that word should be a red flag.

It's similar to when he lumped anarchists in with arsonists. Is it the end of world? Maybe not, but it's something people should definitely take note of as a warning sign for potential issues with his administration. Is he going to abduct protesters off the street? Probably not, so obviously he's a better option than Trump, but if there ends up being some authoritarian elements to his administration, I'd rather not go in denying them from the get go.

I don't see how you view it as an unforced error. If Trump said "why would I take a cognitive test, that'd be like taking a drug test for someone that doesn't do drugs" he'd be made fun of, because that's what we do, but it's not like anyone would view that as a "gaffe" or unforced error. We get petty with Trump because at this point, we're grasping for straws and there isn't much left. But there's little reason to get petty with Biden.

I think that's my point though. Democrats have ceded a lot of credibility with various voting factions because they jump on everything Trump says but lash out as soon as anyone directs similar criticism at Biden.

If you want to blame leftists for highlighting this stuff, be my guest, but there are far more influential voices out there who are going to do it even if we don't; so I think it helps to maintain some level of credibility if we at least say"Yeah, that is pretty dumb/problematic." You're more than welcome to qualify it with "but at least he's not telling people to inject bleach," but refusing to acknowledge it just looks partisan to anyone who isn't already a part of the echo chamber.

[rubecube]

Also, the notion that the pro-Biden crew would have just fallen in line behind Bernie because getting rid of Trump is the priority is laughable. We would be being treated to just as many "Biden was a better choice" lamentations from that crowd as we are from the Bernie crowd.

[nik-]

I think what you need to accept is that those factions aren't as large as you think they are. And if this is enough of a problem for them to stay home and not vote and thus help Trump, then they're dumb, and who cares what they think.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think what you need to accept is that those factions aren't as large as you think they are. And if this is enough of a problem for them to stay home and not vote and thus help Trump, then they're dumb, and who cares what they think.

Even if they make up 5-10% of the population, they're still probably needed to win the election. Is it better to just say "F 'em, then they deserve Trump" than it is to at least make some overtures to them?

Again, it's not as if the left failing to highlight these issues means they're not going to get brought up. I'm not even a Joe Rogan fan and I saw this clip because some MMA account I follow on twitter retweeted a clip of Joe Rogan criticizing Biden about the interview.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Even if they make up 5-10% of the population, they're still probably needed to win the election. Is it better to just say "F 'em, then they deserve Trump" than it is to at least make some overtures to them?

Again, it's not as if the left failing to highlight these issues means they're not going to get brought up. I'm not even a Joe Rogan fan and I saw this clip because some MMA account I follow on twitter retweeted a clip of Joe Rogan criticizing Biden about the interview.

If not getting a candidate as progressive as they wanted causes them to bail out when there is a legitimate danger in the White House, then yes, #### them.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I mean progressives do realize if Trump gets 4 more years (at least) of packing the courts that progressivism in America is basically dead right? Sure, drinking your own piss when you're stranded in the desert is gross, but you're dead if you don't, so try and think it's apple juice? Not to go all advanced stats or anything, but the underlying numbers are pointing upwards for progressives, even if the top line number isn't what they want. To throw that all away out of I would guess spite seems pretty stupid.

[PepsiFree]

Isn't saying the Democrats should make overtures and cater to smaller voting factions completely hypocritical when we say the Republicans (and Conservatives in Canada) should stop catering and making overtures to the smaller voting factions on far right?

Isn't this literally one of the major things we're criticising Republicans for and citing as a major problem with the Republican party?

[Coach]

I thought the Biden quote was in response to taking a Covid test, whereby I thought his reaction seemed ridiculous. It being in response to take a cognitive test makes more sense. Not exactly an eloquent response, but I wouldn’t exactly be pleased to at the question with no basis for the test being required. Could have just said “if you find evidence that I may need to take a cognitive test, by all means. I don’t think I’ve done/said anything that justifies such action. Unlike my opponent who clearly is living in a different reality than the rest of planet Earth.”

[PsYcNeT]

Yeah I (obviously) hang in some pretty progressive circles and think Biden is a molester/rapist creep, but it's the whitest, most privileged take to spit on voting in a ####lib dem when the only other option is 4 more years of Trump.

Harm Reduction is a real, viable political option and not voting is ensuring that people less white, less straight and less natural-born than you are going to get ####ed even harder for the foreseeable future.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

If not getting a candidate as progressive as they wanted causes them to bail out when there is a legitimate danger in the White House, then yes, #### them.

Okay, I can see a few people missed my point, so I don't think I was clear enough. I'm not worried about the progressive vote. Every progressive I know can't stand Biden but would still vote for him when push comes to shove.

I'm talking about the independents and the types of people who listen to the Joe Rogans of the world.

I don't think you can afford to just say "F those people."

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm talking about the independents and the types of people who listen to the Joe Rogans of the world.

I don't think you can afford to just say "F those people."

I'm pretty sure you can. I would guess a good chunk of them don't even vote, and another good chunk are the "independent, but not really independent" votes. It's those suburban voters you actually need to win. They have shown time and again they'll vote for either party. They pushed Trump over the line last time and are looking to be strong for Biden this time.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm pretty sure you can. I would guess a good chunk of them don't even vote, and another good chunk are the "independent, but not really independent" votes. It's those suburban voters you actually need to win. They have shown time and again they'll vote for either party. They pushed Trump over the line last time and are looking to be strong for Biden this time.

Well then honestly who cares if the left criticizes Biden? It's not like those suburban voters are frequent readers of The Intercept or something. Mainstream media outlets have proven pretty adept at not covering the left's complaints about Biden.

Hell, even if you look at their records in Congress, the left generally falls in line with the Democratic establishment when the time comes to vote.

For all the whinging about Bernie Bros costing Hillary the election, they turned out in better numbers for her than Hillary voters did for Obama in '08. They aren't the reason she lost.