The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[Matty81]

I can't say how sick I am of hearing people justify Canadians playing for other countries because the CSA sucks or some coach cut them once, or the didn't get enough playing time. Doesn't hold water, it is just an excuse.

We are lucky enough to be born in a great country, that you are representing in international play.... Not the CSA or the board of the CSA.

There are some other details about this bustos kid that are being discussed on the V's forum. Unconfirmed reports that;
- he has been a carded athlete by the canadian government getting a federal subsidy
- the whitecaps encouraged him to take the "opportunity" of playing for Chile

Like I said, still unconfirmed.

[GirlySports]

Its ok matty. We dont want those guys anyways.

[Read Only]

I think it is a tough choice for them. I despise De Guzman for the way he handled everything and was disappointed (and more so shocked) that he actually made a Dutch squad.

But many of these guys have the chance to play for big teams in major tournaments or play for a crappy Canadian team in a couple of qualifying games and then watch those big tournaments on TV.

I think it would be pretty tough to see England, Holland, Chile, Uruguay etc. playing in Copa's, Euro's and WC's while Canada is done before evening reaching the Hex.

That doesn't even factor in the benefit that playing for these countries can have for their career.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Its ok matty. We dont want those guys anyways.

Ha, too true, I just wish our national team and government could ask for the money they spent on developing him back and that the whitecaps residency spot and all that coaching went to someone who is going to help bring soccer in Canada up instead of justifying their decision to leave by saying it sucks.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Read Only

I think it is a tough choice for them. I despise De Guzman for the way he handled everything and was disappointed (and more so shocked) that he actually made a Dutch squad.

But many of these guys have the chance to play for big teams in major tournaments or play for a crappy Canadian team in a couple of qualifying games and then watch those big tournaments on TV.

I think it would be pretty tough to see England, Holland, Chile, Uruguay etc. playing in Copa's, Euro's and WC's while Canada is done before evening reaching the Hex.

That doesn't even factor in the benefit that playing for these countries can have for their career.

You know I've heard that argument before and I don't buy it. If you're good enough to play for a top nation, you're also good enough to improve Canada and play in big tournaments with them. Add Hoilett, De Guzman and Begovic to our last team that missed the hex by a single point and they would have been at the world cup together right now (well maybe not right now but group stage at least )

I guess I also don't see wearing a nation's colours based on opportunity as a necessary career advancement move either. If you are good enough in your club career you will succeed. International play is about pride and giving back a little... Or should be at least.

[Read Only]

I think playing for the countries opens you up to being seen by the big clubs which can be tough for Canadians.

You're right if we get everyone to come we may be able to move into the next stage of qualifying but if one individual (at least the guys we have so far) comes and the others don't then that one guy is pretty much stuck playing for not much.

Maybe I have seen Canada soccer so terrible recently and that Honduras game sticks in my mind but I am not sure that even with those 3 Canada qualifies for the WC. Although it does seem like the real young guys (u-21's) may have the kind of talent to get them into the WC if they stick around.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I can't say how sick I am of hearing people justify Canadians playing for other countries because the CSA sucks or some coach cut them once, or the didn't get enough playing time. Doesn't hold water, it is just an excuse.

We are lucky enough to be born in a great country, that you are representing in international play.... Not the CSA or the board of the CSA.

There are some other details about this bustos kid that are being discussed on the V's forum. Unconfirmed reports that;
- he has been a carded athlete by the canadian government getting a federal subsidy
- the whitecaps encouraged him to take the "opportunity" of playing for Chile

Like I said, still unconfirmed.

This kid is different, since he was part of the national program already and identified as such. That said, until they get the MNT in order and as a strong reason/ability to convince players to stick around, players who have choices will explore them (or have already). The Whitecaps should be sensitive to Canadian soccer given their geography, but at the same time, they're not going to restrict the player's potential by telling them to play on a lesser team internationally, if only for their own $ benefit; selling him later on as a Chilean International with chances to gain higher profile then he would as a a Canadian one.

As far an ineptness with the CSA and their political nature and lack of desire/inability to look past regional areas for talent in Canada, I'm going off experience in playing with and against enough top level players that didn't get a sniff of any sort of national program.

Playing against players from other provinces, that we were beating in national competitions and tournaments, who were making national teams years later. And it's because Alberta the ASA was at least 4th in the pecking order in the CSA. Ontario, Quebec and to a lesser extent BC were the only provinces the CSA was looking at, due to the political/buddy buddy relationships they had with people in those provincial soccer associations.

A guy like Owen Hargraeves wasn't on the CSA radar at all until he stuck over at Bayern. Kevin McKenna, same thing...only when those two guys who's talent were identified by clubs in foreign countries (after winning National competitions here), did the Canadian Soccer Association take note,and then come running as if you're their long time best friend.

I suspect much talent in this country has slipped through the CSA's fingers over the past couple decades, due simply to the various narrow minded approaches in many areas of running that organization and that disorganization contributes to why players explore other options (many times initiated before the CSA notices them).

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Read Only

I think playing for the countries opens you up to being seen by the big clubs which can be tough for Canadians.

You're right if we get everyone to come we may be able to move into the next stage of qualifying but if one individual (at least the guys we have so far) comes and the others don't then that one guy is pretty much stuck playing for not much.

Maybe I have seen Canada soccer so terrible recently and that Honduras game sticks in my mind but I am not sure that even with those 3 Canada qualifies for the WC. Although it does seem like the real young guys (u-21's) may have the kind of talent to get them into the WC if they stick around.

Honduras was a gong show but it obscured a pretty decent campaign to that point.

They missed the hex by 1 point. To illustrate how close they were, they tied Honduras 0-0 at home in Toronto and outshot them like 14-2 or something, hit the post.

In the hex, 4 of 6 teams made the world cup, and one of the 6 was Jamaica, who are just in shambles right now.

They were close last time around. But yeah that Honduras result was so bad.

[shermanator]

I don't have any attachment to an 18 year old prospect, but it really frustrates me to see a born and raised Canadian use Canadian resources to develop his career, and then bolt for another country at the first opportunity. Maybe I'm just showing pride in my own country, but I just don't understand how anyone can turn their back on a country that has given them a better life than the majority of the world's population can even dream.

I hope the Whitecaps cut this loser for turning his back on Canada, but they will do nothing of the sort, as they do not give a crap about Canadian soccer.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Honduras was a gong show but it obscured a pretty decent campaign to that point.

They missed the hex by 1 point. To illustrate how close they were, they tied Honduras 0-0 at home in Toronto and outshot them like 14-2 or something, hit the post.

In the hex, 4 of 6 teams made the world cup, and one of the 6 was Jamaica, who are just in shambles right now.

They were close last time around. But yeah that Honduras result was so bad.

I contend (as I did when Canada got a good draw 3 years ago in the preliminary stages, which they won) that if Canada got into the Hex, they would've found away into the WC.

That Honduras draw here was tough, as that final game would've meant nothing if Canada got that win.

Mexico struggled a lot in the Hex, and needed a miracle from the US to storm back and beat Panama to allow them the playoff spot. Very easily, Panama could be at the WC over Mexico, along with Honduras....IMO Canada would've been there in one of those two spots. There was nothing to lose for those teams in the Hex, just like the feeling Canada would've had.

The profile raising of the sport in Canada by making the WC, would've undone/masked over a lot of the backroom crap going on that I've been going on about the CSA. Never mind the tens of millions of dollars Canada would get to develop the game from the WC TV rights, just the profile of making it into the Final 32 would give the next generation of kids something to look up to rather then continuing 28 years of failure.

Getting the '22 WC along with the US would do that same profile raising, so all of CSA's resources should be going into securing that.

[Matty81]

So anyway one last post on Bustos before I move along... looks like he has been funded by the Canadian government as an athlete representing our country, received a $10K grant last year as a carded soccer player.

http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1391712243432#t1288

As people said, just one kid and he's young, but still sad and frustrating to see as a fan of the MNT.

[GirlySports]

ok i change my stance, that's a disgrace and yeah we don't want those guys anyways, cut his funding the nanosecond he puts on a Chilean jersey.

I also don't buy playing for a good national team gives more opportunity. There are so few international games, you get to the big club by playing well week-in-week out for a smaller club.

A young Canadian should play in MLS and play for Canada. There are scouts everywhere, one will find him and sign him to a smaller european club, maybe in Belgium or Holland, play well there and go to the EPL.

You look at the Costa Rican team, 23 players play in 12 different countries.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I also don't buy playing for a good national team gives more opportunity. There are so few international games, you get to the big club by playing well week-in-week out for a smaller club.

Don't discount the opportunity to learn from better coaches and teammates. It may not be the case with Chile but would be for a lot of footballing nations.

[shermanator]

Here is a really good blog on the Bustos situation by Ben Massey, who is a prominent Voyageur. It sums up the situation quite well, and why people can't just point the finger at the CSA for what is a short-sighted decision by an individual.

http://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/20...ns-chile-u-20/

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Addick

Don't discount the opportunity to learn from better coaches and teammates. It may not be the case with Chile but would be for a lot of footballing nations.

Perhaps but I'm not a big fan of International football. There are so few games and training camps. League football is miles ahead because it's coaching and training day to day.

Champion's league is miles ahead of International football.

A player like Bustos could learn a lot from the Whitecaps, then in a couple of years go to a lower Spanish team and if he becomes a star he can go to the EPL or a bigger Spanish club. I don't think playing for Chile or Canada makes a difference.

[Matty81]

I'm a little cynical that the amount of time they spend with national teams adds a ton of development, but I do think the experience is good playing in qualifying and tournaments. Also the reputation thing is chicken v egg.

Canada and Chile have both made 5 of the last 10 u-20 world cups so I'm thinking it's more about angling for the senior team... maybe the kid doesn't feel 100% committed to Canada and just wants to check out the setup. The Caps seem to be supporting it, presser on their website with encouraging comments from their coach Robinson about the opportunity and a few of their bloggers and media personalities have been pretty defensive about it.

On to guys who are proud to represent Canada... Samuel Piette is at BVB Dortmund playing the preseason matches with BVB II. Hope he sticks there, would be a big deal for the MNT for him to earn a contract there at 19.

[Da_Chief]

Pretty simple to be eligible for any financial support from Canada make these guys sign a contract, nationally they have to represent Canada or leave now and go find your financial support elsewhere.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Here is a really good blog on the Bustos situation by Ben Massey, who is a prominent Voyageur. It sums up the situation quite well, and why people can't just point the finger at the CSA for what is a short-sighted decision by an individual.

http://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/20...ns-chile-u-20/

Ugh, who still uses white text with a black background. It's 2014 for god's sake.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Perhaps but I'm not a big fan of International football. There are so few games and training camps. League football is miles ahead because it's coaching and training day to day.

I'm betting in the last month alone, de Guzmán has probably learned some invaluable lessons from van Gaal. If Bustos eventually laces up for the Chilean National team, he'll probably pick up some very helpful tips and lessons from players like Vidal and Sanchez. This isn't to say players like de Vos in the past and Hutchinson today won't be able to provide similar mentor-ship but if you want to be the best, learning from the best is quite helpful.

It's just something else to consider.

[Johnny199r]

Canada has some good young players right now. More than ever before. The tide is slowly turning. I Can't remember seeing so many 17-19 yr old canadians with good technique and skill. We're slowly rounding the corner. It's improving, but certainly not quick enough for 2018 - barring some huge surprises.