[Rumour] McKenzie: Hearing the Flames are very intent on moving one of Hamonic or Brodie

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

That’s a pretty big assumption.
What if one of them is used on a forward and the other part of a package that brings back a forward and a dman similar to last summers big splash?

Is it a big assumption? Look at the depth chart he posted after the suggestion I do not see a new top 4 in that lineup. Personally I think the Flames can afford to lose one and Andersson slides into the top 4. If an injury occurs Valimaki might be able to elevate in a pinch but entering the seasons with both slotted in the top 4 is a risk not worth taking.

[Royle9]

You're basically saying we cant afford to lose 2 D men.

Hypothetically we lose Brodie to Toronto for _____
Rasmus moves up and plays the 2 spot.

Under these circumstances you're saying we're okay with just having lost 1.
But if we lose 2 then our depth is gone (accurate assumption)

However, say we now trade Hamonic to WPG for ____ and and Dman then we're right back to technically being down 1 D.

This doesn't include Tre looking to go after a UFA D man or something OR potentially the Russian we picked up steps in. We can afford to lose both so long as we recoup 1 D via UFA/Trade which is my point.

I think we're fine with losing both ASSUMING we get a serviceable top 5/6 D man in return one way or another.
We CANNOT afford to lose BOTH and not get one in return.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I’m making this my sig in 2 years when he wins the Norris again.

Players that fall off early are players that barely hung on to begin with, in most cases. Raw hockey talent takes forever to lose as long as the commitment and drive are still there.

Karlsson will see some doctors and take some time to rest and he will continue being a top defenseman in this league for at least another 5 years.

I don't understand posts like this. If Karlsson doesn't win a Norris in 2 years am I supposed to put your post as my signature?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

You're basically saying we cant afford to lose 2 D men.

Hypothetically we lose Brodie to Toronto for _____
Rasmus moves up and plays the 2 spot.

Under these circumstances you're saying we're okay with just having lost 1.
But if we lose 2 then our depth is gone (accurate assumption)

However, say we now trade Hamonic to WPG for ____ and and Dman then we're right back to technically being down 1 D.

This doesn't include Tre looking to go after a UFA D man or something OR potentially the Russian we picked up steps in. We can afford to lose both so long as we recoup 1 D via UFA/Trade which is my point.

I think we're fine with losing both ASSUMING we get a serviceable top 5/6 D man in return one way or another.
We CANNOT afford to lose BOTH and not get one in return.

I don’t think trading our 2 and 3 Dman and acquiring a 5/6 is going to allow the team to remain strong on the blueline. So I disagree with your take unless we are getting a top 4D in return and I don’t get why they would trade Hamonic for another Dman. If he returns a forward and a lesser D is that the type of deal the Flames would want?

The team still has Valimaki, Kylington, Stone for the bottom pair. Move one of Brodie or Hamonic and the remaining top 4 is Gio, Hanifin, Andersson. Maybe in another year Valimaki is a surefire top 4 but too risky right now.

[dammage79]

There's little to no gap IMO between Valimaki and Andersson. Difference being a high ankle sprain derailed Valimakis rookie season.

[Makarov]

Ideally, Brodie is traded and either Valimaki or Kylington is able to play on the right side (despite being left-handed):

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Kylington or Kylington-Valimaki
Stone/whoever

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't understand posts like this. If Karlsson doesn't win a Norris in 2 years am I supposed to put your post as my signature?

Forum banter/exaggeration to enhance a point.

If Karlsson is a liability by then I hope I can be in a couple people’s sigs.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Ideally, Brodie is traded and either Valimaki or Kylington is able to play on the right side (despite being left-handed):

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Kylington or Kylington-Valimaki
Stone/whoever

Hanifin actually spent some time playing the right side for the Canes, he seemed to be holding his own too. I am somewhat intrigued by that possibility, though it does seem unlikely.



Giordano - Hanifin
Valimaki - Hamonic
Kylington - Andersson

[FireFly]

IMO, see ya later Brodie. Sure, you put up points, but you were out of position so often I thought I had travelled back in time and was watching Jordan Leopold again. Just as Regher made Leopold look good, Giordano made Brodie look good.

I'll be happy to watch him miss the puck at the blue line for some other team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FireFly

IMO, see ya later Brodie. Sure, you put up points, but you were out of position so often I thought I had travelled back in time and was watching Jordan Leopold again. Just as Regher made Leopold look good, Giordano made Brodie look good.

I'll be happy to watch him miss the puck at the blue line for some other team.

According to some....Giordano was reliant on TJ Brodie to perform at a Norris level.

I just cant wrap my head around that thought process when looking at their two bodies of work.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Forum banter/exaggeration to enhance a point.

If Karlsson is a liability by then I hope I can be in a couple people’s sigs.

Well it won't be from me as I don't take enjoyment from showing up others.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

According to some....Giordano was reliant on TJ Brodie to perform at a Norris level.

I just cant wrap my head around that thought process when looking at their two bodies of work.

Gio and Hamilton were also one of the top ranked defensive pairings for a couple of years. It's seems plausible that you can pair Gio with any NHL caliber defenseman and the results will be satisfactory. Brodie was terrible with Hamonic last season to the point Hamonic was bad as well. Hamonic had a much better season this year paired with a 22 year old Hanafin that's not a finished product. Not sure that puts Brodie in a bright light.

[cKy]

IMO all this Brodie makes Gio better or Gio makes Brodie better talk all jibba jabba.

I don't care if one person makes another person better. This is a team sport and we need to make the TEAM better. If subtracting Brodie and his constant gaffes makes the team better overall at the sacrifice of Gio then so be it.

I bet if you ask Gio he'll take being on a complete winning team than winning a Norris. You need to separate the player from the person in all aspects of hockey.

Does Brodie help you win games?
Does moving Brodie and what his return is help you win games?
Does Gio going from 80 points to maybe 65-70 points alter your endgame?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by transplant99

According to some....Giordano was reliant on TJ Brodie to perform at a Norris level.

I just cant wrap my head around that thought process when looking at their two bodies of work.

Giordano’s two best seasons are with Brodie as his partner. He should win the Norris this year and LIKELY would have won the year he got injured


Why is it so hard for people to admit that they BOTH elevate each other’s games?


No one is saying Giordano wasn’t still a top defensemen with Hamilton.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by neo45

Giordano’s two best seasons are with Brodie as his partner. He should win the Norris this year and LIKELY would have won the year he got injured


Why is it so hard for people to admit that they BOTH elevate each other’s games?


No one is saying Giordano wasn’t still a top defensemen with Hamilton.

So the argument is what then? It's pretty obvious Gio doesn't need Brodie to perform as a number one defenseman. IMO the only reason he wasn't in the Norris conversation with Hamilton is because Hamilton actually has an NHL caliber shot unlike Brodie which meant that there was less opportunity for Gio to collect as many points paired with Hamilton. Seems to me like Gio is so flexible that he can make it work whether it's carrying Brodie offensively or Hamilton defensively.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So the argument is what then? It's pretty obvious Gio doesn't need Brodie to perform as a number one defenseman...

I think the argument is that as good as Giordano is, Brodie has a track record of bringing the absolute best out of him. That's it. (At least, that SHOULD be the extent of the argument.)

Is it enough to make the decision to trade Hamonic instead of Brodie? I don't think so, since I view the situation as one in which the Flames need to move a player from a position of strength in order to balance cap spending and roster distribution. If Giordano is not quite as good with another defense partner as he is with TJ Brodie, then so be it—he will continue to be one of the top defensemen in the NHL for at least another year.

IMO the only reason he wasn't in the Norris conversation with Hamilton is because Hamilton actually has an NHL caliber shot unlike Brodie which meant that there was less opportunity for Gio to collect as many points paired with Hamilton...

I think this is wrong, or, at least should be stated another way. The reason Giordano was not a Norris candidate the years he was paired with Hamilton is because he was most often running defensive cover on that pairing—even in situations where Hamilton should have been doing so. This year, Giordano was not jumping up onto the play out of necessity, it was rather out of opportunity that Broie provided, which Hamilton seldom did.

[Macho0978]

[QUOTE=neo45;7125870]Giordano’s two best seasons are with Brodie as his partner. He should win the Norris this year and LIKELY would have won the year he got injured


Why is it so hard for people to admit that they BOTH elevate each other’s games?

We also need to factor in gulutzan into this equation. Gio didn't get first unit pp time right from day 1 under gg and 5 on 5 is hard to get points under his system. I believe gio career year is due to best pp unit he had ever played with and no glen gulutzan. Less of it is to do with brodie

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So the argument is what then? It's pretty obvious Gio doesn't need Brodie to perform as a number one defenseman. IMO the only reason he wasn't in the Norris conversation with Hamilton is because Hamilton actually has an NHL caliber shot unlike Brodie which meant that there was less opportunity for Gio to collect as many points paired with Hamilton. Seems to me like Gio is so flexible that he can make it work whether it's carrying Brodie offensively or Hamilton defensively.

I think the argument is that if Brodie is moved it is likely the top pairing won’t perform at the same level next season.

Andersson has played well with Giordano but it’s a small sample size and a differently level of pressure if he is expected to step up into that role full time over an 82 game season.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think the argument is that if Brodie is moved it is likely the top pairing won’t perform at the same level next season.

Andersson has played well with Giordano but it’s a small sample size and a differently level of pressure if he is expected to step up into that role full time over an 82 game season.

At what point do the Flames start trusting their youth? Imo andersson is close to brodie already and he is young and getting better

Valimaki has potential to be better than both

Look at the Bruins. They have chara but after that they have trusted their youth

Krug was a regular at 22
Carlo at 20
Clifton McAvoy and carlo are all very young still

John Moore was a regular at 21

Gio hamonic are our veteran presence. Stone or an ufa signing could be another veteran presence. It is time for these kids to play

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

At what point do the Flames start trusting their youth? Imo andersson is close to brodie already and he is young and getting better

Valimaki has potential to be better than both

Look at the Bruins. They have chara but after that they have trusted their youth

Krug was a regular at 22
Carlo at 20
Clifton McAvoy and carlo are all very young still

John Moore was a regular at 21

Gio hamonic are our veteran presence. Stone or an ufa signing could be another veteran presence. It is time for these kids to play

Oh my god.

Andersson established himself as a regular this year as a 22-year old, and 19-year-old Valimaki made the team out of camp. He was supplanted only because of a serious injury that wiped out most of his season. Andrew Mangiapane played 44 games in his 22-year-old season, and 19-year old Dillon Dube also made the team out of camp. Barring any movement, all of these players will be on the roster next season

All the handwringing about the Flames "not trusting their youth(!)" is so overblown and exaggerated: Most of their top-six forwards next season will be under 25-years-old, and they will have at least three defensemen playing under the age of 24. This is NOT an issue.