[Trade] Kevin Hayes to Philly for a 5th round pick

[Rando]

Those moves pre-2004 lockout weren't about negotiating rights, they were about high dollar teams moving pieces to low dollar teams. If the Rangers lost Brian Leetch as a UFA they wouldn't get compensation (in the from of a draft pick) because they were above a certain salary threshold. The Oilers however were below that. Trade happened June of 2003, Oilers received a compensation 2nd round pick from the NHL for the 2004 draft, Rangers received a 2004 4th from the Oilers.

Someone figured out this loop hole at some point, but with a new CBA around the corner it was a short window. Rangers also traded Fleury to the Sharks for example.

If you're looking for Flames content they traded a 2002 3rd to Toronto for Curtis Jospeh and received a 2003 2nd from the NHL (later traded to San Jose).

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Rando

And in a move that can only be described as vintage Flames two players eventually taken with those picks were Matt Carle and Tyler Johnson, neither by the Flames of course.

Tyler Johnson was never drafted.


And Joseph was traded for a conditional 8th, was he not?

[Rando]

The details are hazy.

[Ped]

Found the details

On Jun. 30, 2002, the Leafs traded the rights to goaltender Curtis Joseph to the Flames for a 2003 third-round pick and future considerations. The future considerations ended up being a 2004 conditional eighth-rounder, but the conditions weren’t exercised.
The third-round pick was eventually moved to Minnesota who used it to take forward Danny Irmen. He played just two games for the Wild in 2009-10 and has been in Europe ever since.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-trades-flames/

[Ped]

Found the details

On Jun. 30, 2002, the Leafs traded the rights to goaltender Curtis Joseph to the Flames for a 2003 third-round pick and future considerations. The future considerations ended up being a 2004 conditional eighth-rounder, but the conditions weren’t exercised.
The third-round pick was eventually moved to Minnesota who used it to take forward Danny Irmen. He played just two games for the Wild in 2009-10 and has been in Europe ever since.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-trades-flames/


No idea who was taken with the compensatory pick, though.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Ped

No idea who was taken with the compensatory pick, though.

The Flames received the 47th OA pick in the 2003 draft as compensation but traded it to the Sharks for 97th OA (Ryan Donally), 143rd OA (Greg Moore), and 173rd OA (Tyler Johnson).

Sharks took Matt Carle and the Preds took Shae Weber two picks later.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ped

Tyler Johnson was never drafted.


And Joseph was traded for a conditional 8th, was he not?

Different Tyler Johnson.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Different Tyler Johnson.

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

Toronto traded G Curtis Joseph's rights to the Flames for a draft pick in 2002, but he ended up signing somewhere else (Detroit).

EDIT: Nevermind.. This was already mentioned several times above. I should catch up on the whole thread before replying.

[sureLoss]

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Sounds like #Flyers have made progress with pending UFA Kevin Hayes. No guarantee it gets done, of course, but certainly trending in that direction.

[djsFlames]

If Gaudreau jetting is inevitable, I'd do a king's ransom swap with them next summer for something around Konecny or Couturier.

[sureLoss]

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
It’s not yet a done deal but PHI continues to work toward a long-term contract for pending UFA centre Kevin Hayes and, for now anyway, there’s a sense of optimism. Stay tuned. Curious on the market value for Hayes. Six years at north of $6.5 million perhaps?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

6.5m is crazy for a guy like Hayes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If Gaudreau jetting is inevitable, I'd do a king's ransom swap with them next summer for something around Konecny or Couturier.

Or solve your goalie problem for the next decade and centre it around Hart.
I think next summer is the trade/no-trade decision for the Flames. If they feel like he isn't going to re-sign they need to move him then to maximize the value. This organization simply cannot afford to deal another franchise player for poor return. With 2 years left on a sweetheart deal - he would still have big value next year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Or solve your goalie problem for the next decade and centre it around Hart.
I think next summer is the trade/no-trade decision for the Flames. If they feel like he isn't going to re-sign they need to move him then to maximize the value. This organization simply cannot afford to deal another franchise player for poor return. With 2 years left on a sweetheart deal - he would still have big value next year.

IMO if you deal Gaudreau you're signalling a rebuild. He's your best player, he makes lesser players around him better, so by dealing him you're really committing to being a worse team.

I don't think there is the organizational imperative to compete like that. For what it's worth, I think it's an inevitability, but I don't think Flames ownership does a very good job of forecasting these sorts of things.

Honestly, it would be tough to deal gaudreau and get better in the following couple of years, and I just don't think this organization has the appetite for that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

IMO if you deal Gaudreau you're signalling a rebuild. He's your best player, he makes lesser players around him better, so by dealing him you're really committing to being a worse team.

I don't think there is the organizational imperative to compete like that. For what it's worth, I think it's an inevitability, but I don't think Flames ownership does a very good job of forecasting these sorts of things.

Honestly, it would be tough to deal gaudreau and get better in the following couple of years, and I just don't think this organization has the appetite for that.

Perhaps. Probably.
For me though it's just about doing a better job of managing the assets. Do I think the window slams shut if Johnny is traded? No I don't. But I also think if they try to extend that window their is risk in a deal being bad long-term.
And I don't think it's just Philly that you would target: Philly, NJ, NYI, NYR,Boston. Create a bidding war that gives you a plethora of riches.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
It’s not yet a done deal but PHI continues to work toward a long-term contract for pending UFA centre Kevin Hayes and, for now anyway, there’s a sense of optimism. Stay tuned. Curious on the market value for Hayes. Six years at north of $6.5 million perhaps?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

IMO if you deal Gaudreau you're signalling a rebuild. He's your best player, he makes lesser players around him better, so by dealing him you're really committing to being a worse team.

I don't think there is the organizational imperative to compete like that. For what it's worth, I think it's an inevitability, but I don't think Flames ownership does a very good job of forecasting these sorts of things.

Honestly, it would be tough to deal gaudreau and get better in the following couple of years, and I just don't think this organization has the appetite for that.

Depending on what happens next post season, it's probably going to be the team signaling a rebuild. Another showing like that and we're just deluding ourselves if we don't start over with a handful of the young pieces.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

IMO if you deal Gaudreau you're signalling a rebuild. He's your best player, he makes lesser players around him better, so by dealing him you're really committing to being a worse team.

I don't think there is the organizational imperative to compete like that. For what it's worth, I think it's an inevitability, but I don't think Flames ownership does a very good job of forecasting these sorts of things.

Honestly, it would be tough to deal gaudreau and get better in the following couple of years, and I just don't think this organization has the appetite for that.

I do not agree. If Tkachuk takes another step plus you get a nice core piece in return - the trade is more about he team now being MT's team. Maybe the offense isn't dynamic or build around 1 player but its not a rebuild. Its a retool with a young core still.

[SuperMatt18]

I would hate to trade him but I actually kind of feel like if you know Gaudreau wants to go to the Flyers then this might be the summer to pull the trigger.

Flyers appear to be going all in to win with Giroux (3 years left), they have some cap space, have the right combination of picks/roster players/prospects, and Fletcher as new GM seems to have the marching orders to make a splash this summer.

Lots of good pieces in the Flyers organization:

Top Pick: Check
11th Overall Pick

Good Young Roster Players: Check
Gostisbehere - 4 x $4.5M
Konecny - RFA
Sanheim - RFA
Provorov - RFA
Patrick - ELC

Prospects: Check
Morgan Frost
Joel Farabee
Jay O'Brien
German Rubtsov

If the Flyers called up the Flames with a "godfather" offer and offered 11th overall, Konecny, and 2-3 other pieces from what I have listed then I'd probably do it.