Alberta Politics Thread v2

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Since we are on the topic of wasting time obstructing Federal jurisdiction, maybe we should ask the bozos in BC and Quebec their opinions on this?

My point was that any referendum that would have the required constitutional clout to force the Feds to act would have to be to remove it completely, a referendum to change the formula would not be an amendment to the constitution and wouldn't meet the same criteria as Quebec separation.

While there is a lot of anger right now, I don't know that demanding it be removed completely would have a lot support. And even if it was removed, that doesn't stop the Federal government from continuing the payments as they see fit, it is Federal money.

Until there is a Federal government that has the appetite to change it (and the current formula was designed by the CPC, so I doubt they would do much) then having a referendum on it isn't actually going to do a thing except make for good political grand standing.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Here's a video of Jason Kenney talking about his proposed "Fight Back" strategy on the pipeline fight. The UCP have been criticized pretty fairly here about not having a platform yet, this is the first real articulation of policy on what I think should be without a doubt the most important election question, who will get us a pipeline quicker and defend the O&G industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxH8Sz2vSGQ&t

Main points include:

-Well resourced war room to respond to lies about Alberta's Oil Sands industry on Social Media or otherwise
-Litigation fund to support pro-development groups (particularly FN Groups like Eagle Spirit)
-Address flagrant violation of Canada's charity laws by environmental groups, David Suzuki group and the like
-Expects major O&G companies to replicate litigation strategies that American forestry companies have taken against GreenPeace and others.
-If HSBC and others want to boycott Oil Sands players then the Gov of Alberta will likewise boycott them
-Real consequences for partners in the confederation who flagrantly violate interprovincial trade (Looking at you Horgan, you mother####er)
-Wants to identify greatest points of leverage, which is mostly equalization formula, wants to initiate a referendum on that if the Feds won't guarantee a coastal export pipeline.

I've been really impressed with Notley lately and I think she's a very capable politician but this video swings me pretty hard toward voting UCP. We've tried the play nice approach and it didn't work, it's time to get aggressive and show we're not going to back down until we get the coastal export pipeline we need.

Ya she did this before the last election. Smiles and appears likeable. I’m not buying it. Her calm, cool, collected approach has got us nowhere.

Sorry i’m not gullable enough to play into her game.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

No the last thing we need is the Tides and Union funded propaganda arms of the NDP (Progress Alberta) spreading misinformation without any response, IE: current situation.

Right, we should all get our information from groups like Shaping Alberta’s Future.

I’m not going to defend progress Alberta’s decision to accept money from tides as I’m not affiliated with their organization, but I will say that given the Alberta NDP’s stance on our O&G industry, tides are likely feeling buyers remorse on that contribution from 2016.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Ya she did this before the last election. Smiles and appears likeable. I’m not buying it. Her calm, cool, collected approach has got us nowhere.

Sorry i’m not gullable enough to play into her game.

Are you gullible enough to believe Kenney is going to somehow convince the Liberals to do whatever it is you’re assuming they could do to get this pipeline in the ground? Please enlighten us all as to what exactly Kenney is going to do that will get it done.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by belsarius

My point was that any referendum that would have the required constitutional clout to force the Feds to act would have to be to remove it completely, a referendum to change the formula would not be an amendment to the constitution and wouldn't meet the same criteria as Quebec separation.

While there is a lot of anger right now, I don't know that demanding it be removed completely would have a lot support. And even if it was removed, that doesn't stop the Federal government from continuing the payments as they see fit, it is Federal money.

Until there is a Federal government that has the appetite to change it (and the current formula was designed by the CPC, so I doubt they would do much) then having a referendum on it isn't actually going to do a thing except make for good political grand standing.

I don't think you're wrong at all. Just that we have seen where other provinces have willfully disregarded the same advice to no consequence, and even further were rewarded for such behavior.

Trudeau should smack all this down, but he didn't and I won't feel sorry if this gives him heartburn next year. He created conditions that even municipalities (Burnaby) can obstruct Federal power.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Do you really see his approach as pro-Alberta? It looks as though the majority of what he is saying he’ll do is basically spend a lot of tax dollars on projects that further the interests businesses, which is fine in itself(to some extent) but if he’s at the same time planning to reduce the deficit, those projects will likely be paid for with funds that would have otherwise gone to public services and other infrastructure projects. I may be wrong but I think there are more albertans who rely on things like roads, schools and healthcare than there are albertans who own businesses in o&g.

You do realize that Alberta itself needs to encourage investment into the private sector right? That we have investment fleeing this province, we have people being laid off, with the jobs that are being created they're lower paying jobs, that we're losing tax revenue because of this crisis right?


How many times have we seen in this thread "well we need to counter mis-information with information. There have been a bunch of ads for example up to a couple of years ago by private industry to counter mis-information by Suncorp and Husky for example. The Government needs to get out on this train as well, so yeah its probably a good way to spend money.

What you're saying about cramming the money into the public sector and programs makes no sense because


We're probably facing a shrinking revenue pool


Cramming more money into programs and infrastructure isn't going to convince the private sector and especially Oil and Gas that the government is going to help them turn the tide on what's happening.


The most prudent action that goes along with and is probably more effective then merely talking is a government strategy around how they're going to show that Alberta is open for investment and actually pro business.


Not every answer is to spend money on public services, and public infrastructure.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The referendum talk is just smoke and mirrors, he’s playing on people’s emotions when he knows, or ought to know, that it will accomplish very little while also costing tax payer dollars to do. He also still hasn’t explained what he will do to actually get the pipeline going.

Fair enough, except that its not the Alberta Government that has to get the pipeline going, its the federal government that has to get the pipeline going. What Kenney is talking about is at least going after mis-information and trying to convince investment to stay in this province.


The referendum if it happens is about forcing the Federal Government to face their choices and put pressure on them and the rest of Canada and its probably a moral boost for Albertan's who are pissed off.

[iggy_oi]

@CC

I’m not suggesting that the money should be spent on public services instead, my point was that services shouldn’t be taken away from albertans so that the money can be allocated to projects that could otherwise be funded through other means. If they want to make cuts for the sake of balancing the budget that’s one thing, but it’s another to make the cuts so the money can go to groups that have the capital to fund some of these projects themselves, and in some cases are already doing so.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

@CC

I’m not suggesting that the money should be spent on public services instead, my point was that services shouldn’t be taken away from albertans so that the money can be allocated to projects that could otherwise be funded through other means. If they want to make cuts for the sake of balancing the budget that’s one thing, but it’s another to make the cuts so the money can go to groups that have the capital to fund some of these projects themselves, and in some cases are already doing so.

These companies have stopped or are stopping spending money, the small ones to survive, the big ones are spending their money in other jurisdictions where they can get a return on their investment.


The government has to put bucks into the fight its that simple, its an act of faith to re-assure these businesses.


The money isn't being taken away from Albertan's its fighting for Alberta jobs and investment from the private sector.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Cap, what are you doing dude?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Cap, what are you doing dude?

I seriously get a kick out of how scared some of you are to have your opinions challenged.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Cap, what are you doing dude?

Huh, is there a rule?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Huh, is there a rule?

His nonstop drivel is on ignore for many. You definitely won't change his mind.

[PsYcNeT]

Yeah some posters here just want to live inside their own insulated echo chamber. Way to ruin that.

(ignore lists are for the weak)

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

His nonstop drivel is on ignore for many. You definitely won't change his mind.

So in your view CC shouldn’t respond to my posts because other posters are to afraid to read them? I think CC(and any other poster) is able to make his own decisions on what to post or who to respond to without your input.

Thanks for stopping by with your well thought out and on-topic contribution.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Yeah some posters here just want to live inside their own insulated echo chamber. Way to ruin that.

(ignore lists are for the weak)

Only by realising I was too weak not to look at the posts of the people on my ignore list did I find the strength to take them off the list and just not respond to their posts.

My own CP journey of ignorable enlightenment.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Cap, what are you doing dude?

I think the phrase "troll farm" set off an alert and look who showed up.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I think the phrase "troll farm" set off an alert and look who showed up.

Speaking of posters who are too afraid to debate people with different opinions...

[PostandIn]

Some sort of anti-Trudeau / Notley protest is underway in Leduc with oilfield vehicles. It started with a defined route through Leduc but has grown and is now blocking entry to the QEII north and snarling traffic. Reports of fist-fights and threats, etc. People be gettin' more perturbed.

[Muta]

I hope Kenney has a plan for diversification as well. Hopefully we can focus on being a leader in energy technologies, alternative energy / innovations and related tech, in addition for pushing investment in oil and gas.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

Some sort of anti-Trudeau / Notley protest is underway in Leduc with oilfield vehicles. It started with a defined route through Leduc but has grown and is now blocking entry to the QEII north and snarling traffic. Reports of fist-fights and threats, etc. People be gettin' more perturbed.

Source?

And no random twitter person doesn’t count.