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Old 03-06-2019, 12:26 PM   #2441
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My SO is a social worker and interviewed with the city ~1 year ago. She was making ~$50k/yr, the city job was $80k and was an identical job with a lower case load and less responsibilities.
Still sounds incredibly unreliable to me. Have no idea how someone can look at a job posting and, without spending even one day actually working the job, conclude that it is "identical" to another job or has a "lower case load" or "less responsibilities". I should also point out the obvious internal inconsistency in her conclusion that the City job was both "identical" to hers yet also had a "lower case load" and "less responsibilities". Doesn't make for compelling evidence.

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We're pretty sure she only got the interview because the city needs to put on a facade that they aren'y only giving these jobs to people who are already well connected with the city government.
For what its worth, although still open to abuse (no question), job competitions in workplaces with collective bargaining agreements are far more formal, rigourous and open to scrutiny than in non-unionized workplaces.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:28 PM   #2442
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You have a source for these stats?
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...71115a-eng.htm
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:33 PM   #2443
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No one who's ever worked in my field for government ever corrected me when I called it a working retirement, they mostly said "lol, pretty much."
Again, considering these are all people who, for one reason or another, either chose to leave government positions or were forced to leave government positions, I question their impartiality. Such is the danger of anecdotes like these.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:34 PM   #2444
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I don’t know if this is considered reliable or not, but I’ve worked over 10 years in each of the public and private sectors. There is no question in my mind that the public sector positions in my field have the opportunity to be more ‘cushy’ than the private sector. Primarily because the public sector is, in general, so terrible at performance management. If you want to work hard on the public sector there is no shortage of good meaningful work to do. If you want to slack off there is no one willing to effectively performance manage you, and even if you have a good manager, the big machine takes a very different approach on conflict resolution and off boarding. In my experience in the private sector, upper management has fewer qualms about off boarding poor performers.

Just one guy’s experience, but hope it helps.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:35 PM   #2445
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Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
Still sounds incredibly unreliable to me. Have no idea how someone can look at a job posting and, without spending even one day actually working the job, conclude that it is "identical" to another job or has a "lower case load" or "less responsibilities". I should also point out the obvious internal inconsistency in her conclusion that the City job was both "identical" to hers yet also had a "lower case load" and "less responsibilities". Doesn't make for compelling evidence.

I don't know what I can offer that is more reliable than her years of work experience, questions she asked during the interview and her conversations with people in her field that had worked for the city.


Sure working for the government isn't all sunshine and lollipops, but it is a sweet, sweet plum and the best compensation you can get in many fields.

Last edited by Matata; 03-06-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:46 PM   #2446
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because restaurants and shops aren't going to open up in a dead downtown.
Well that's obvious.

But my thinking wasn't just a reflection of now, more along the lines of why is this not a requirement of sorts when building office towers from the get go. Calgary's core downtown has been labelled as dead after 5pm for decades, including during boom times.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:47 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
Still sounds incredibly unreliable to me. Have no idea how someone can look at a job posting and, without spending even one day actually working the job, conclude that it is "identical" to another job or has a "lower case load" or "less responsibilities". I should also point out the obvious internal inconsistency in her conclusion that the City job was both "identical" to hers yet also had a "lower case load" and "less responsibilities". Doesn't make for compelling evidence.
Sooo.....you're anecdotally denying his anecdotal evidence?

This is rock-solid legal ground we're on here.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:54 PM   #2448
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
I've applied for dozens of government jobs that I was qualified for. Never got so much as a call on any of them. Always wondered what the deal was.

From what I've since learned from talking to people who work for the government:

1) People rarely leave, so there's very little turnover.
2) They tend to be highly desirable jobs in terms of security, benefits, and pensions, so each opening gets hundreds of applicants.
3) Most positions are filled internally with a person from another team or government agency.

Basically, you need some kind of an inside connection to even get an interview for a government job.
So much like the private sector.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:56 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Sooo.....you're anecdotally denying his anecdotal evidence?

This is rock-solid legal ground we're on here.
?

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an·ec·do·talDictionary result for anecdotal
/ˌanəkˈdōdl/Submit
adjective
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
I haven't relied on any personal account. Indeed, I haven't made any assertion regarding the relative diligence of public sector workers v. private sector workers.
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Old 03-06-2019, 01:58 PM   #2450
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So much like the private sector.
No, not like the private sector. There's much more movement in the private sector, and almost all positions are filled externally.

I've worked closely with about 15-20 people in my profession. Most work 2-5 years at a given company then move on. If I quit or lost my job tomorrow, I'd be able to tap that network for opportunities. But I wouldn't have a problem getting interviews at companies where I didn't know anyone either, just based on my experience.

That's not the case with the government. I don't know a single person in my network who works in government (though stats show a great many people in my profession do). I rarely see postings. And even if I did apply for a position, I doubt I'd get an interview, even if I met all the qualifications. This has been the experience of my friends in the field too.

There are essentially two job ecosystems: one with dozens of private companies that people move between frequently; and the government ecosystem (which you could break down to the three levels of government). There's very little movement between those two ecosystems. At least in my profession.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:52 AM   #2451
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I notice when people comment on "outrageous salaries" they, like Mbates did, mention the outliers.

In the area where I worked, not one person made over $100,000 including value of benefits. we're talking about 200 people. just an example out of tens of thousands of employees, of course.

people forget the majority of staff are regular joes doing regular jobs.

none of us were raking it in compared to the private sector. none of us were/are on the sunshine list.
Have you looked at the sunshine list (which I note I referred to in my post and was not only mentioning outliers)?

https://www.alberta.ca/salary-disclosure-table.cfm

I do not think it is unfair at all to go through that list and question whether the number of people on it - some making much higher than the minimum it takes to make the list - represent good value for the compensation being spent.

That is different than superficially declaring salaries to be outrageous. Which I do not think I did.

And the responses to the example I gave in large part suggested that there was nothing outrageous about the compensation given the person is a top public servant.

Seemed like a productive discussion to me.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:27 PM   #2452
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Kenney makes a statement saying personal income tax rates in this province are staying as is. Goes on to say that with the economy being what it is, now is not the time to reintroduce the flat tax.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1103753619088658432
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:21 PM   #2453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
I've applied for dozens of government jobs that I was qualified for. Never got so much as a call on any of them. Always wondered what the deal was.

From what I've since learned from talking to people who work for the government:

1) People rarely leave, so there's very little turnover.
2) They tend to be highly desirable jobs in terms of security, benefits, and pensions, so each opening gets hundreds of applicants.
3) Most positions are filled internally with a person from another team or government agency.

Basically, you need some kind of an inside connection to even get an interview for a government job.
Pretty much. I used to work for the city, I remember one time we had a job opening for a fairly low-level seasonal position in roads and it got 4000 applications in 10 days. Many of them were very overqualified, mostly ex oil and gas people

You have to really stand out.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:17 PM   #2454
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Kenney makes a statement saying personal income tax rates in this province are staying as is. Goes on to say that with the economy being what it is, now is not the time to reintroduce the flat tax.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1103753619088658432
Good work Kenny, now just leave in the Sales tax (I mean Carbon tax) after elected by saying we never knew the books were so bad and move it to general revenues.

He does fail to recognize it’s never a good time for a flat tax.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:02 PM   #2455
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I got a phone call from my local UCP candidate asking if he could put a sign on my front lawn. In the past I've said no to such things as they often get vandalised or in the worse case stolen, so I politely said no. I say it to all parties.

Now i'm having second thoughts. My neighbour is as huge a Notley fan as you will ever find and will brag to anyone who will listen about what a great job she's done. We like to rib each other so I was thinking I should call back tomorrow and say yes. Just to get under his skin a bit and maybe stick it on his lawn for a weekend when he's gone skiing
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:30 AM   #2456
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I wonder if parking somebody in a waiting room of a building and awkwardly filming who goes in and out of offices counts as tactical politics.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1103771512270516224
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:35 AM   #2457
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An easy way to delegitimize your point is linking that terrible twitter account.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:43 AM   #2458
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An easy way to delegitimize your point is linking that terrible twitter account.
Throwing up a floater to that twitter account is on Kenney.
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:41 AM   #2459
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Weitz - No argument is illegitimate here. What are your thoughts on Jason's statement?
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:44 AM   #2460
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Originally Posted by btimbit View Post
Pretty much. I used to work for the city, I remember one time we had a job opening for a fairly low-level seasonal position in roads and it got 4000 applications in 10 days. Many of them were very overqualified, mostly ex oil and gas people

You have to really stand out.
I once was an HR assistant for a year. one pile of resumes was for people over qualified. it was felt that they would just use the job as a placeholder until something better came along.
they were not cast aside, but they were in the "B" pile. to be looked at if we didn't have enough qualified people in the "A" pile.

which seldom happened as so many hundreds of people would apply for each opening.


I think that's what's happened with all the Oil & gas people who applied for public sector after the downturn. HR probably doesn't trust many of those people would stay if things got better in their industry or a better offer came along.
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