[News] Jack Eichel Surgery And Comeback Thread

[Finger Cookin]

Everybody loves a good comeback story

NSFW!

[Locke]

Jack Eichel skated in practice wearing a full-contact jersey for the first time since joining the team on Monday.

https://www.tsn.ca/vegas-golden-knig...zzin-1.1756112

[the-rasta-masta]

So he must be fairly close. What does the Vegas Cap situation look like now? Will they be making some trades shortly?

[FlamesAddiction]

On January 10th when he started non-contact practice with the team, they said he was still 2 months away from playing, so they still have another month to figure out how to cheat the system.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

So he must be fairly close. What does the Vegas Cap situation look like now? Will they be making some trades shortly?

With Martinez and Bischoff on LTIR they would need to clear $3M before being able to activate Eichel.

But would also need to then free up ~$5.5M more to be able to activate Martinez.

So in total probably need to clear about $8.5M before the end of the season if nobody else goes on LTIR.

[stemit14]

I don’t think they will clear anywhere near that much. Not even close… they will find some guys on the team who are willing to sit out, put them on LTIR and activate eichel. People speculate that they might move smith but I don’t even think they’ll do that.

I could even see them blatantly asking everyone on the team if any of them have any “nagging injuries”. They’ll say they need some guys to be team players so that they don’t have to dismantle the team before playoffs.


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[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I don’t think they will clear anywhere near that much. Not even close… they will find some guys on the team who are willing to sit out, put them on LTIR and activate eichel. People speculate that they might move smith but I don’t even think they’ll do that.

I could even see them blatantly asking everyone on the team if any of them have any “nagging injuries”. They’ll say they need some guys to be team players so that they don’t have to dismantle the team before playoffs.


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Totally, Vegas isn't losing anyone. They will have no problem finding players that are banged up and willing to rest going into the playoffs if it means being able to go in with a stacked roster. It won't be lying either. We always hear about players going into the playoffs injured that could have justifiably been on LTIR for 30 days if the team had the luxury of doing that.

Imagine how much of a dick you would feel like if you insisted on being in the line-up at 75%, forcing the team to lose a good player, and possibly costing the rest of your friends a chance at the Stanley Cup. Even if everyone is 100% healthy (not likely), I would take one for the team in order to not lose anyone and I am sure many players would, especially ones with nothing to prove on an individual level.

From what I can tell, the NHL doesn't police the LTIR that hard to say that a player should not be on it. If a team doctor says they need to sit out to heal an injury, then that's it.

They really need to make it so that at least the on-ice roster for playoff games needs to be cap compliant.

[Moneyhands23]

50/50 he is on the IR buy April 1st

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I don’t think they will clear anywhere near that much. Not even close… they will find some guys on the team who are willing to sit out, put them on LTIR and activate eichel.

How much are they going to bribe the league's medical staff to approve the LTIR? And why will the other 31 teams just sit there and let the league do that?

[djsFlames]

I'm not a fan of the Legend of SB thread but this one takes the cake for sure for worst thread on the FOI forum.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

How much are they going to bribe the league's medical staff to approve the LTIR? And why will the other 31 teams just sit there and let the league do that?

Won’t have to bribe them at all.

Player: “My neck has been hurting.”

Doctor: “Did you strain it or twist it in a game?”

Player: “Yeah. It’s been bothering me for a while. Last time this happened it took a couple months to heal up completely.”

Doctor: “Ok. We’ll check you week-to-week to see when you feel 100%.”

Doctor stamps approval for LTIR.

If a player says he feels pain or discomfort in any way, a doctor will likely approve of rest and recovery every single time. What’s he going to do? Say you’re lying, there’s nothing on the X-rays, and send the player back out there to play a super physical sport? No way. They would always lean on the side of caution.

As far as the other 31 teams… what could they do? What could/would the league do?

They could have video footage of Vegas management asking all the players at once if any of them have any nagging injuries - even very small ones - and, if they do, they should step up for the team and go on LTIR so that the team can stay together. There would be zero consequences. Management could say they didn’t want to risk injuries getting worse while also trading away players to fit in eichel only to have a depleted roster come playoffs so they chose to not force players to play through “injuries”. Done. There’s likely no way to fight back against Vegas in this case. They will absolutely get away with it.

The only way you could punish/stop them is if a player openly admitted to completely lying about injuries because they were told to by management to do so. Very unlikely.

Management in the case of Vegas will be basically giving the ultimatum to everyone on the team… either find some injuries amongst yourselves or some of you will get traded/put on waivers and it could cost us the ability to have a powerhouse come playoffs. You get paid a full salary either way.


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[Textcritic]

^
Yeah, I am not convinced that players are lining up to sit for weeks on end on LTIR. Most of these guys want—and need—to play as much as they can.

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[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
Yeah, I am not convinced that players are lining up to sit for weeks on end on LTIR. Most of these guys want—and need—to play as much as they can.

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Not saying they’d be lining up to do it. I’m saying there will be players that step up to do it for the chance to keep the team together. The alternative is a valuable player being lost from the roster permanently due to a trade - diminishing the overall team and its chance at a cup this year.

I would imagine management will ask their physiotherapists and doctors if any of their players have been pushing through any injuries/discomfort - even the slightest ones. Then they’ll approach those players asking them to rest up and heal up for the good of the team and for themselves so they’re 100% for playoffs. Nobody gets traded. You get your full salary. You’re back for playoffs or even before if someone else has an injury issue. Eichel gets to play too. The team is then primed for a deep run without having to sacrifice any more players to acquire eichel.


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[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I would imagine management will ask their physiotherapists and doctors if any of their players have been pushing through any injuries/discomfort - even the slightest ones. Then they’ll approach those players asking them to rest up and heal up for the good of the team and for themselves so they’re 100% for playoffs.

That doesn't work. To qualify for LTIR, the player has to be actually unfit to play, and the league is entitled to challenge any LTIR claim and have it reviewed by a neutral physician. If that physician determines that the player does not have a bona fide injury requiring him to miss at least 10 games or 24 days consecutively, the player can't go on LTIR and there is no cap relief. If the attempted circumvention is serious enough (like, say, trying to have $10 million worth of extra players on the active roster during the regular season, as some of you think Vegas can do), then the league can punish the team by a fine of up to $5 million, loss of draft picks, and even forfeiting games.

To my knowledge, no player has ever been put on phony LTIR simply so that another player could come off LTIR and be activated. I don't expect it to happen this time: 31 other teams have an interest in making sure it doesn't.

Originally Posted by stemit14

As far as the other 31 teams… what could they do? What could/would the league do?

I've just outlined what the league could do. What the 31 teams can do is take a vote of the Board of Governors and order the league to take action.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That doesn't work. To qualify for LTIR, the player has to be actually unfit to play, and the league is entitled to challenge any LTIR claim and have it reviewed by a neutral physician. If that physician determines that the player does not have a bona fide injury requiring him to miss at least 10 games or 24 days consecutively, the player can't go on LTIR and there is no cap relief. If the attempted circumvention is serious enough (like, say, trying to have $10 million worth of extra players on the active roster during the regular season, as some of you think Vegas can do), then the league can punish the team by a fine of up to $5 million, loss of draft picks, and even forfeiting games.

To my knowledge, no player has ever been put on phony LTIR simply so that another player could come off LTIR and be activated. I don't expect it to happen this time: 31 other teams have an interest in making sure it doesn't.



I've just outlined what the league could do. What the 31 teams can do is take a vote of the Board of Governors and order the league to take action.

Yeah, the Kucherov situation was different in that he was injured enough to go on LTIR.... the shady part was he just conveniently stayed on LTIR until the first game of the playoffs.

[Robbob]

I recall when Rhett was put on LTIR for his shoulder, he said that he was checked by NHL docs to confirm. So no, Vegas isn't getting away with a fake LTIR injury. That is part of the problem with players on LTIR that return in season, it will be a cap issue if he returns. If the doctors say a couple months then it looks like Vegas has until the trade deadline to sort things out. That is if he doesn't have any setbacks.

[Robbob]

Kucherov also came back before the typical time frame for the surgery he had. So it was a bit more convenient rather then something sinister.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I recall when Rhett was put on LTIR for his shoulder, he said that he was checked by NHL docs to confirm. So no, Vegas isn't getting away with a fake LTIR injury. That is part of the problem with players on LTIR that return in season, it will be a cap issue if he returns. If the doctors say a couple months then it looks like Vegas has until the trade deadline to sort things out. That is if he doesn't have any setbacks.

Honest question. Can anyone recall the NHL denying a team the ability to put a player on LTIR? If a player says something hurts… I don’t think a doctor will deny them rest and recovery - NHL doctor or not. Even in this example with Rhett… the doctor still approved the LTIR.

I understand that there are rules to prevent a team from exploiting the system. I just think that they are difficult to enforce. I’m much more convinced a couple players will be placed on LTIR leading up to Eichel’s return rather than Vegas trading away valuable players that they will want for the playoffs. We’ll see what happens.


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[GioforPM]

To go on LTIR the player has to be expected to miss a minimum of 10 games/24 days. So Vegas would need to sit a guy that’s (a) injured enough to make that claim and (b) makes enough to make a difference cap-wise. And IMO they would probably have to sit the player for at least 8 to make it look good. That’s 2-3 weeks off for a guy who’s good enough to make a dent in the cap. We’re talking a $4-5M player.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

With Martinez and Bischoff on LTIR they would need to clear $3M before being able to activate Eichel.

But would also need to then free up ~$5.5M more to be able to activate Martinez.

So in total probably need to clear about $8.5M before the end of the season if nobody else goes on LTIR.

Their GM has already said that "players will get injured", so I see more LTIR coming up for some of the underperforming players currently in their lineup. Everyone has nagging minor injuries throughout the season.