Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Karl

Comparing Mangiapane to a scrub grinder in Bouma is just farcical.

Nothing alike about them at all. It's a pretty big disservice to the player Mangi has become.

The fact you think I compared them as players is farcical.

I wasn't comparing the players. I was using his contract as an example of overpaying players that have had a career year that they can't sustain.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Karl

Comparing Mangiapane to a scrub grinder in Bouma is just farcical.

Nothing alike about them at all. It's a pretty big disservice to the player Mangi has become.

How about Rene Bourque?

He broke the out in his late 20s, put together three pretty nice seasons in Calgary, including back to back 27-goal 50 pt seasons.

He was signed to a six-year extension, and played on 4 other teams before leaving the league at 35.

Career 0.44 PPG to Mangiapane’s 0.48.

It’s gotta be clear even to Bread’s biggest fans that he’s a good secondary player rather than a 1st line stud.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by jg13

The fact you think I compared them as players is farcical.

I wasn't comparing the players. I was using his contract as an example of overpaying players that have had a career year that they can't sustain.

Ok. My bad.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by jg13

The fact you think I compared them as players is farcical.

I wasn't comparing the players. I was using his contract as an example of overpaying players that have had a career year that they can't sustain.

While Magiapane's shooting percentage is clearly unsustainable, his ice time and usuage is responsible for his increased production.

He's no flash in the pan, his performance at the work championships attested to that.

He's been a solid 40 point player for two years who has increased his production because he deserved better ice time.

We'll have to see where he sits at the end of the year, but if he gets 55 points or so, he will get paid. And deservedly so.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

How about Rene Bourque?

He broke the out in his late 20s, put together three pretty nice seasons in Calgary, including back to back 27-goal 50 pt seasons.

He was signed to a six-year extension, and played on 4 other teams before leaving the league at 35.

Career 0.44 PPG to Mangiapane’s 0.48.

It’s gotta be clear even to Bread’s biggest fans that he’s a good secondary player rather than a 1st line stud.

There is lots of secondary payers who make $5M + in the league.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by jg13

I still expect Treliving to sign him in the 4.75-5M range as a RFA.

Blake Coleman basically got $5M. That’s the quality of player you get at $5M. Mangiapane on the otherhand is 3rd in the entire league in goals. You pay for goals, that’s just how it goes in this league. He’s also being considered in for team Canada. His cap hit will not start with a 4 under any circumstance.

I have to say though, I’m surprised you’re hard balling Mangiapane, yet you’re willing to offer Kylington $4.5M for a good start or possibly just 1 good season. That’s the confusing thing for me.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Blake Coleman basically got $5M. That’s the quality of player you get at $5M. Mangiapane on the otherhand is 3rd in the entire league in goals. You pay for goals, that’s just how it goes in this league. He’s also being considered in for team Canada. His cap hit will not start with a 4 under any circumstance.

I have to say though, I’m surprised you’re hard balling Mangiapane, yet you’re willing to offer Kylington $4.5M for a good start or possibly just 1 good season. That’s the confusing thing for me.

RFA vs UFA makes a huge difference with Coleman.

Assuming Mang levels off the rest of the way, and even at that will still likely flirt with 30 goals, you have to take the entire scope of his last 2.5 seasons into account. For the team you'd slot him in between Backlund and Lindholm in terms of importance, and for me that means he's looking at $5-$5.5 AAV for 5-6 seasons.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Blake Coleman basically got $5M. That’s the quality of player you get at $5M. Mangiapane on the otherhand is 3rd in the entire league in goals. You pay for goals, that’s just how it goes in this league. He’s also being considered in for team Canada. His cap hit will not start with a 4 under any circumstance.

I have to say though, I’m surprised you’re hard balling Mangiapane, yet you’re willing to offer Kylington $4.5M for a good start or possibly just 1 good season. That’s the confusing thing for me.

Yeah they have to pay him if he is 3rd in the league at the end of the season.

Right now after 1 quarter, he is not getting pay like that. I guess he’ll wait.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

RFA vs UFA makes a huge difference with Coleman.

Assuming Mang levels off the rest of the way, and even at that will still likely flirt with 30 goals, you have to take the entire scope of his last 2.5 seasons into account. For the team you'd slot him in between Backlund and Lindholm in terms of importance, and for me that means he's looking at $5-$5.5 AAV for 5-6 seasons.

If Mangi levels off, he’d likely be flirting with 40 then, not 30. For him to only flirt with 30, he’d have to be injured or fall off so dramatically, that his goal scoring pace would drop from his current pace of 56 to somewhere in the teens which is extremely unlikely.

For the team, ideally you want him at that number. But for Mangiapane, he’s going to want way more and I don’t blame him. Treliving played hard ball and this is the risk you run when you continuously kick the can down the road. Mangiapane will have an exceptional amount of leverage this summer and he’s going to look to clean up on the only big pay day of his career and good for him too, he deserves it. It’ll hurt the team’s cap situation, but that’ll be on Treliving for his lack of foresight on the matter.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Blake Coleman basically got $5M. That’s the quality of player you get at $5M. Mangiapane on the otherhand is 3rd in the entire league in goals. You pay for goals, that’s just how it goes in this league. He’s also being considered in for team Canada. His cap hit will not start with a 4 under any circumstance.

I have to say though, I’m surprised you’re hard balling Mangiapane, yet you’re willing to offer Kylington $4.5M for a good start or possibly just 1 good season. That’s the confusing thing for me.

Considering what we have on the farm and on the current roster I’d much rather lose a top 6 forward than a top 4 d.

Ontop of that I believe Kylington will come in cheaper than Mangiapane which is why I’d also try to sign Kylington (4.5~) ahead of Mangiapane (6M+) if we can only keep 3 of the 4 RFAs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

RFA vs UFA makes a huge difference with Coleman.

Not so sure this has as much truth as three years ago. RFAs are making coin now.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by jg13

Considering what we have on the farm and on the current roster I’d much rather lose a top 6 forward than a top 4 d.

Ontop of that I believe Kylington will come in cheaper than Mangiapane which is why I’d also try to sign Kylington (4.5~) ahead of Mangiapane (6M+) if we can only keep 3 of the 4 RFAs.

I don’t think there’s a chance Treliving doesn’t sign Mangiapane to a long term deal. Treliving loves Mangiapane and has been trying to add more players of his ilk.

If there’s one player that gets squeezed out of the bunch, I think it’s Kylington. This is his first season as an impact player, he still has a couple more years left of team control and Treliving has proven to be extremely shrewd in his role as a GM. So I don’t see him just throwing cash at a player who he isn’t 100% certain of.

A couple scenarios I could see with Oliver is a 1 year prove it again deal which would help a lot because Lucic’s deal will be over by then, so that’ll free up space for his inevitable raise. If that isn’t sufficient though, the second scenario I could see happening is a cheaper, shorter term deal that takes him to free agency early which benefits both sides.

Regardless of what occurs with Kylington though, I just don’t see any scenario where Brad gives up Mangiapane to overpay Kylington. I’m also not even sure Sutter thinks about the farm team to be honest, he doesn’t appear to be a fan of Valimaki or Dube or young kids just learning to play the pro game, I think he’d feel just fine picking up a free agent off the UFA market to replace Kylington if it came down to it.

[Flamesfan05]

Give Johnny what he wants

Because you don’t really have a team without him
None of the other players can generate the offense like he does
And Markstrom is not going to steal games like Hasek

And sign Tkachuk too, cause you only have 4 legit scorers

[TheoFleury]

Probably missed our chance with Gaudreau sadly. There is zero reason for him not to test Ufa. Brad has no leverage at all. Probably the worst handling of an elite asset in this franchise's history and that's saying something. I bet the only way he stays is if the flames make a run to at least the WCF and then he's getting panarin's deal.

Weird life cycle for this iteration of the team. Best season at the end and then promptly will be forced to rebuild. BT has no one to blame but himself either.

If Gaudreau walks, you either rebuild or we're just going to see 2010-13 all over again.

[Macman]

Johnny Gaudreau was a 4th round 104th overall pick in 2011 and everyone else passed him over. I'm not saying he should be obligated to stay with the Flames but for that reason I think he will.

I also think it's a good situation here for him overall as far as winning it all. I think he will re-sign here.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macman

Johnny Gaudreau was a 4th round 104th overall pick in 2011 and everyone else passed him over. I'm not saying he should be obligated to stay with the Flames but for that reason I think he will.

I also think it's a good situation here for him overall as far as winning it all. I think he will re-sign here.

Why is that even relevant?

The Flames passed on him 3 times. They were less dumb than everyone else.

Winning it all?

Yeah, Calgary has a long history of playoff success.


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[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Macman

Johnny Gaudreau was a 4th round 104th overall pick in 2011 and everyone else passed him over. I'm not saying he should be obligated to stay with the Flames but for that reason I think he will.

I also think it's a good situation here for him overall as far as winning it all. I think he will re-sign here.

Being drafted 104th overall by a different regime probably means precisely zero to gaudreau. Why would it? That makes no sense.

Being squeezed on his second contract by this GM probably still a factor though.

[Macman]

But isn't Philadelphia a tough place to play for a lot of players? How do you think Johnny will do there and so far all the talk has been that's the team he wants to play for.

Eric Lindros didn't even win there, same with Jeff Carter who went on to win a cup in LA. And there's many others.

I get it's all about the most money but I'm sure players still want to win and I don't think the Flames will try and undercut Johnny here.

What I think will happen is that Andrew Mangiapane will get traded to solidify the lineup and that will make it easier to re-sign both Johnny and Tkachuk. And that's how they're going to try and win the cup.

[McG]

Treliving had the exact definition of buying low this offseason and he missed it. If the players indicated that they didn’t want to sign then they should have been traded.

Every good thing that these players do this season drives their contract value up and puts bigger handcuffs on the flames.

Treliving should have had contracts done the instant Giordano was selected by Seattle.

Terrible asset management but sadly exactly what is par for the course.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by McG

Treliving had the exact definition of buying low this offseason and he missed it. If the players indicated that they didn’t want to sign then they should have been traded.

Every good thing that these players do this season drives their contract value up and puts bigger handcuffs on the flames.

Treliving should have had contracts done the instant Giordano was selected by Seattle.

Terrible asset management but sadly exactly what is par for the course.

What if they indicated they wanted to sign (which they both did publicly) but they just weren’t on the same page dollar wise off season? What if they lied? What if they just didn’t want to negotiate until the year kicked in? You act like it’s all on Treliving to do a deal.

I don’t think Chucky has been driving his price up. He doesn’t really need to anyway.