Suicide Pods Legal in Switzerland

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Dion

I don't agree with offering a Pod to those who are suicidal. Get them the damn help they need so they can overcome and go on to live productive lives.

This is naïve and unintentionally cruel. I know you don't have a cruel bone in your body, Dion, but what I mean is some people's existence is pure torture and expecting them to carry on like we do is just too much. So on top of being in either severe physical and/or mental anguish, we guilt people for having suicidal tendencies and force them to carry burdens beyond what they can handle.

Sometimes suicide is merciful. I think that's who these pods are for and I'm glad the Swiss will have access to them. Once you've exhausted all chances of improvement, it can be time to bow out.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Dion

I don't agree with offering a Pod to those who are suicidal. Get them the damn help they need so they can overcome and go on to live productive lives.

This is where I struggle with this. It can be 'easy' to see when one of these pods would be used in a medical situation. Far less so in a psychological one. I've been thinking on this for some time (after a friend's experience with his family and the MAID program) and I still have no answers. This strikes me as the kind of thing that could be debated until the heat death of the Universe.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

This is naïve and unintentionally cruel. I know you don't have a cruel bone in your body, Dion, but what I mean is some people's existence is pure torture and expecting them to carry on like we do is just too much. So on top of being in either severe physical and/or mental anguish, we guilt people for having suicidal tendencies and force them to carry burdens beyond what they can handle.

Sometimes suicide is merciful. I think that's who these pods are for and I'm glad the Swiss will have access to them. Once you've exhausted all chances of improvement, it can be time to bow out.

I'm not expecting them to carry on. I'm just asking that more help be available for those who are suffering. I don't think that's cruel as i'm sure some of those that are suffering would be happy to hear they have more options for help. I believe wanting to die is a last choice people want to make.

I lost a HS friend to suicide when he jumped of a downtown parkade in Calgary. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 19 and couldn't come to terms with what he had. A Pod would have made it less messy and horrific but I have always wondered if he got the help he really needed.

I believe it's not so much guilt but moreso a statement of don't give up. Of course you're going to have cases where people have a terminal illness that causes them to suffer or disabilities that make living very difficult. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as some make it out to be

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'm not expecting them to carry on. I'm just asking that more help be available for those who are suffering. I don't think that's cruel as i'm sure some of those that are suffering would be happy to hear they have more options for help. I believe wanting to die is a last choice people want to make.

I lost a HS friend to suicide when he jumped of a downtown parkade in Calgary. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 19 and couldn't come to terms with what he had. A Pod would have made it less messy and horrific but I have always wondered if he got the help he really needed.

I believe it's not so much guilt but moreso a statement of don't give up. Of course you're going to have cases where people have a terminal illness that causes them to suffer or disabilities that make living very difficult. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as some make it out to be

Yeah, definitely not cut and dry. Somebody close to me committed suicide and I am happy for him his struggle is over (mental health struggle, that is...he was physically fine). He tried to go on for a good 15 years of utter internal hell. A pod like this would have been way more merciful and less shameful for him. Wish he would have had that as an option.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This is where I struggle with this. It can be 'easy' to see when one of these pods would be used in a medical situation. Far less so in a psychological one. I've been thinking on this for some time (after a friend's experience with his family and the MAID program) and I still have no answers. This strikes me as the kind of thing that could be debated until the heat death of the Universe.

My Dad passed away via the MAID program. All in all, I think it was a great thing, and I know my Dad was so appreciative of being able to go on his own terms and with dignity. Living out of the country, for so long, I had no idead that was even a thing and my friends and family in the US had no idea this was even an option in other countries.

My Dad was 74 years old, cycling 100 miles 4-5 days/week when he got blindsided with pancreatic cancer. Went downhill pretty quickly physically over about 8 months, but was still walking around, and still himself mentally.

He was lucky in a sense that pancreatic cancer was pretty much automatically qualified as terminal. My parents have friends with some very tragic degenerative diseases that don't qualify.

The biggest problem from my experience in my Dad's case was that there was this pressure that he had to be fully capable mentally when it came time to set the date right up to the actual date/time it happened. There were a couple times he had some bad stuff happen where he was ready to pull the trigger, and then had a couple good weeks after where he was able to spend some special time with family. I think about how tragic the laws that I'm sure were well intentioned, almost robbed him and us of that. Also, it placed so much undo stress on him and my Mom at at time when that was the last thing they needed.

I don't know what the right answer is either, but a lot of controls they put in place can cause a lot of unintended consequences to the last people you'd want to hurt. But still it is a great thing that Canada has this, and I guess if those are the compromises they have to make to make it happen, it was probably worth it in our case.

[djsFlames]

Suicide booth is real?

[Dynamic]

I’m at the point in my life where I realize I have no idea what demons others are facing. Who am I to judge is someone decides enough is enough? It’s hard for me to understand because I’m very happy floating around the sun on this little blue ball of life. But there are others that don’t feel that way. And I’m not physiologist but there are people despite all attempts at treatment will not get in a better mental place.

That being said there needs to be some kind of screening. Sone way of managing it so say if recently Joe got divorced at is in more of a situational depression.

[djsFlames]

Going to sound dark, but I wouldn't mind just having the option available. There is a consolation in just having the option.

Edited for less darkness. Want to promote positive vibes in these strange times.

[Sliver]

Plus I think they'd be great for super old people that reach that stage where they're too old for anything and just sit around waiting to die. That sometimes drags on for a decade or so.

If I end up getting super old to the point where there will never be any more fun and life is just a monotonous bore, I'd way rather hop in a pod and leave an inheritance versus hanging on burning through thousands of dollars in care homes to just keep me existing.

[djsFlames]

And having your mind/memories decay if you lived into the hundreds, having last seen your friends/spouse decades prior and forgetting their faces/voices and the times when you could still be active. That wouldn't be fun at all.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Going to sound dark, but I wouldn't mind just having the option available. There is a consolation in just having the option.

Edited for less darkness. Want to promote positive vibes in these strange times.

Life is brighter when you know there are always options, even at the end.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Plus I think they'd be great for super old people that reach that stage where they're too old for anything and just sit around waiting to die. That sometimes drags on for a decade or so.

If I end up getting super old to the point where there will never be any more fun and life is just a monotonous bore, I'd way rather hop in a pod and leave an inheritance versus hanging on burning through thousands of dollars in care homes to just keep me existing.

I was a volunteer in a Calgary nursing home for a number of years where I would visit a woman in her late 70's who was blind. You could argue she had every right to want out of life. The facility didn't cater to the blind and other than me and her 2 daughters, she didn't have a lot to live for.

Dispite all that she was happy. She enjoyed our visits that often included me pushing her in her wheel chair around the court yard, me reading the newspaper to her, coversations and by weekly games of Bingo in the games room. PCA's and nurses said she was delight to work with everyday.

Sometimes life comes down to an attitude we have about it.

TBQH I have wondered if we will get to a state where we put our elderly in Pods when they become a burden to society, both cost and housing wise. A slippery slope type of thing where this Pod thing changes over the years where we reach that point, I hope not.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Dion

I was a volunteer in a Calgary nursing home for a number of years where I would visit a woman in her late 70's who was blind. You could argue she had every right to want out of life. The facility didn't cater to the blind and other than me and her 2 daughters, she didn't have a lot to live for.

Dispite all that she was happy. She enjoyed our visits that often included me pushing her in her wheel chair around the court yard, me reading the newspaper to her, coversations and by weekly games of Bingo in the games room. PCA's and nurses said she was delight to work with everyday.

Sometimes life comes down to an attitude we have about it.

TBQH I have wondered if we will get to a state where we put our elderly in Pods when they become a burden to society, both cost and housing wise. A slippery slope type of thing where this Pod thing changes over the years where we reach that point, I hope not.

Just goes to show...

Happiness is a state of mind, not a circumstance.

People eventually learn this when they attain their goals and wants and realize they still don't feel accomplished or whole, but instead just move on past them looking towards the next thing/goal/marker, perpetually postponing any allowance of sustained contentment.

You train yourself into happiness, in the present, even while things are incomplete or a work in progress, or certain things aren't going to happen for you (the ability of sight). It doesn't suddenly happen upon you once x and y are fulfilled, especially if you've trained yourself into dissatisfaction for much of your life. You've created a groove/pathway in thinking that is years deep in the thoughts of "I will be happy when..", so there's no way you can suddenly flip that switch for good when your outer circumstances reflect what you said you wanted. That's the thing that I think evades so many people in western culture, because we're swimming in visuals of how a happy life is supposed to look like, instead of determining that for ourselves.

Society convinces even the best of us that we need to always be collecting, attaining and pursuing, often at the cost of our mental and physical health, and the opportunity for happiness in the present.

Being happy all starts with gratitude, for just the minute, little things. And grows from there. Giving is a good way of getting there too, which I'm sure you experienced in doing that volunteering.

That is awesome you did that. Not many people would spare the time.

[Sliver]

I think happiness for many is less about an attitude and more about wiring and chemicals in their brain. I know some people can be positive in the harshest of circumstances, but others can be unhappy when it seems like they should have the world by the tail.

These pods aren't for shoving our old people in. They would be for old people to opt to go in if they wanted and I don't think it's up to others to tell them to turn that frown upside down and then carry on their merry way.

They're just an option to end suffering. That's a good thing and will be a source of relief to so many. It's not for us to judge if people want to take their leave. It's okay if we can't relate to that sort of exit strategy, but if you look at all the suicides out there, they're going to happen no matter what.

Suicide is like abortion. Make it illegal and people will do it, anyway, but in a more unsafe way whilst shrouded in shame.

[Ozy_Flame]

Remember when Gandalf said that death is just another path in life, one that we all must take?

I'd rather have the option to time the inevitable according to my watch, rather than wait for it to time me.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Remember when Gandalf said that death is just another path in life, one that we all must take?

I'd rather have the option to time the inevitable according to my watch, rather than wait for it to time me.

Aragorn laid down his life when he felt he was ready. He didn’t wait for it to come for him.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Remember when Gandalf said that death is just another path in life, one that we all must take?

expert level trolling by immortal Maia spirit Gandalf

[Cowboy89]

I don't know how I feel about this. I have a strong negative emotional reaction to this and its hard for me to put my finger on it exactly. I'm a fairly Libertarian person and on the surface this aligns perfectly with many of my libertarian slants. However, on a macro level this makes me really sad and could be used as evidence in a way that the western world has probably slid too far off the ledge into nihilism.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Dion

I was a volunteer in a Calgary nursing home for a number of years where I would visit a woman in her late 70's who was blind. You could argue she had every right to want out of life. The facility didn't cater to the blind and other than me and her 2 daughters, she didn't have a lot to live for.

Dispite all that she was happy. She enjoyed our visits that often included me pushing her in her wheel chair around the court yard, me reading the newspaper to her, coversations and by weekly games of Bingo in the games room. PCA's and nurses said she was delight to work with everyday.

Sometimes life comes down to an attitude we have about it.

TBQH I have wondered if we will get to a state where we put our elderly in Pods when they become a burden to society, both cost and housing wise. A slippery slope type of thing where this Pod thing changes over the years where we reach that point, I hope not.

You say she was happy, but I wonder if you would have asked her straight up what she would have said. My mom seemed happy enough, right up until she put a gun to her head. If my dad was able to find her sleeping peacefully in a pod instead of discovering a horrific mess that would have been a lot of extra trauma avoided

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I don't know how I feel about this. I have a strong negative emotional reaction to this and its hard for me to put my finger on it exactly. I'm a fairly Libertarian person and on the surface this aligns perfectly with many of my libertarian slants. However, on a macro level this makes me really sad and could be used as evidence in a way that the western world has probably slid too far off the ledge into nihilism.

I feel the same way. Ideologically, I believe people should be free to end their life whenever they choose. Economically and socially, I see the aging population and relentlessly rising health care costs as the biggest threat to the sustainability of public services - not only health care itself, but public education and every other program we’ll have to cannibalize to pay for health care.

And yet…

If we remove the professional gating of assisted suicide, and we remove the stigma around suicide, and we make it easier and more comfortable to carry out, I expect we’ll see dramatically higher suicide rates. Some of them will be people who were so miserable that death was a relief. But others will be people suffering from temporary despair.

Furthermore, it will be an indictment of our society as a whole, and the decreasing sense of purpose, belonging, and happiness.