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Old 03-21-2019, 07:04 AM   #1
bagofpucks
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Hi All,

Branching off another thread about acreage security, it appears that self monitored security cameras are the way to go. Anyone have good/bad experiences with certain brands or systems? Any recommendations for installers? Is there a place in Calgary that specializes in this type of stuff?

Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:13 AM   #2
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I'm curious how people's security cameras handled the cold this year.

The brand i was going to purchase did so poorly in the cold (according to friends I reached out to) that i have to look at a new set.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:18 AM   #3
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Good point!

I was very interested in the Arlo wireless/battery set ups, but it sounds like they won’t work in anything under -18, so that’s not going to work.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:51 AM   #4
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I love Arlo, but even here (farther south) there was several winter days that were too cold for the cameras to operate. But then, you won't find anything battery operated that will work in cold conditions, AFAIK.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:45 AM   #5
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I have Arlo wireless/battery. There was a stretch of about 5 days where it was too cold for the ones I had outside to work, the rest of the winter they were fine. Both were somewhat sheltered though.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:50 AM   #6
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I went with a Reolink setup (https://reolink.com/) and am very happy with it. It's somewhere in the middle of the ease/expense of Arlo and the cheap/headaches of going Chinese IP cam.

I have 2 suggestions based upon experience: 1) Try to go wired if at all possible. Wireless just adds an entire layer of flakiness and the sustained bandwidth requirements are tough to achieve. 2) Try to avoid using cloud-hosted storage if you can. It sounds great on paper, but your security system now relies on Telus/Shaw. In addition, these services have no guarantees of uptime or if they will even exist in 6 months. (See Lowes Iris).
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:52 AM   #7
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I have hikvision. they worked all winter no problem.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psicodude View Post
I went with a Reolink setup (https://reolink.com/) and am very happy with it. It's somewhere in the middle of the ease/expense of Arlo and the cheap/headaches of going Chinese IP cam.

I have 2 suggestions based upon experience: 1) Try to go wired if at all possible. Wireless just adds an entire layer of flakiness and the sustained bandwidth requirements are tough to achieve. 2) Try to avoid using cloud-hosted storage if you can. It sounds great on paper, but your security system now relies on Telus/Shaw.
Seconding going with Reolink.

I have their 5MP RLC-410 PoE cameras and their 8 channel NVR. It was flawless all winter (the cameras are mounted outside on the garage). I'm planning on buying additional ones to place around the property.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
Seconding going with Reolink.

I have their 5MP RLC-410 PoE cameras and their 8 channel NVR. It was flawless all winter (the cameras are mounted outside on the garage). I'm planning on buying additional ones to place around the property.
I have 2 of them connected via POE and I have the NVR. Works flawlessly. The mobile app isn't fantastic but works for my needs.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:23 PM   #10
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I have hikvision. they worked all winter no problem.
+1 for Hikvision. Had mine for a couple of years now, zero issues!
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:00 AM   #11
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Anyone have experience with non-Chinese brands? Seems to be lots of security issues with them.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:37 PM   #12
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Anyone have experience with non-Chinese brands? Seems to be lots of security issues with them.
The biggest security issue is the people who set them up and leave the default passwords in place.

CBC literally did an episode of Marketplace on exactly this.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:46 AM   #13
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I dunno, stuff like this is more than just not setting a proper password:


Quote:
The US Department of Homeland Security gave the Hikvision cameras its worst / highest score - a 10.0 out of 10.0 - confirming that it is "remotely exploitable/low skill level to exploit" for "improper authentication." Moreover, DHS additionally confirmed a "password in configuration file", scoring it a critical 8.8 out of 10.0.
https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-backdoor


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Any Hikvision manufactured camera connected to a network can be deactivated, activated, reset, or even locked out by Hikvision (majority owned by the Chinese ruling party). Some numbers suggest this could include up to 40% of all security cameras in the United States, but it’s impossible to really know how many it really is.

https://np.reddit.com/r/technology/c...reepy/dx0ljfi/


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Drew explained that the hackers found a vulnerability, which affects most of DAHUA's cameras, that allows anyone to take full control of the devices' underlying Linux operating system just by typing a random username with too many characters.
The hackers then planted malware on the devices to turn them into bots and use them for both DDoS attacks as well as for extortion campaigns using ransomware., Drew said. The malware targets specifically Linux devices and is part of a family that previously went by the names Lizkebab, BASHLITE, Torlus and gafgyt, according to Level 3 and others who have been investigating the attacks.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...et-brian-krebs


Not a big fan of this kinda stuff.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:51 PM   #14
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I have moved into the Ring ecosystem and I really like it. Not the cheapest but works flawlessly. Have a Ring Pro Doorbell, with a floodlight cam, and 2 wired ring cams on detached garage.

Added bonus is the ring security system (w/ cell backup) can roll into one flat fee. So for $100/year I get full video monitoring and home security. Cheapest I found before was $360/yr for monitoring my old ADT system through a local Calgary outfit (no video).
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:27 AM   #15
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Yeah, the entire IOT industry (including cameras) needs to do a better job of making their products secure. Even Nest was hacked a few months ago. The challenge is that a lot of manufacturers use linux as the OS to keep the price down (as opposed to developing their own OS) but either don't know what they are doing or don't care.

I think it's a good general practice to not blindly trust any of these devices and try to secure them yourself by means of a good firewall, not using default credentials, and not exposing stuff directly to the internet.

With cameras specifically, the question in my mind is which is worse: Doing the work to secure an IOT device on my own or trusting a cloud-hosted solution? IMO, any home security related device cannot rely on the internet to work. Just too many issues with downtime, latency, etc. A device that records locally and then backs up to the cloud is fine, just not one that directly records to the cloud like Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc.

I suppose it's a tradeoff though.
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
I dunno, stuff like this is more than just not setting a proper password
Quote:
Originally Posted by psicodude View Post
I think it's a good general practice to not blindly trust any of these devices and try to secure them yourself by means of a good firewall, not using default credentials, and not exposing stuff directly to the internet.
Huh, interesting, I didn't know about the Hikvision security issues.

That said, I treat all IoT devices (including my Hik cameras) as hostile. I have a separate VLAN and SSID for my wireless IoT devices (smart light switches, etc), and while they get internet access, they don't get access to my internal network.

The Hikvision cameras, I went a step further. They're on a separate network entirely, with a completely different IP subnet, and zero access to the internet. I use Blue Iris on a refurbished desktop PC to record from my cameras, and the PC has two network cards - one going to the switch connected to the cameras, and the other to my regular network.

I have the Blue Iris app on my smartphone, but when I'm not at home, I have to log into my VPN in order to access the cameras. Not something your average person can set up, but since I have the IT background, I was able to take those extra precautions.

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Originally Posted by psicodude View Post
Yeah, the entire IOT industry (including cameras) needs to do a better job of making their products secure. Even Nest was hacked a few months ago. The challenge is that a lot of manufacturers use linux as the OS to keep the price down (as opposed to developing their own OS) but either don't know what they are doing or don't care.
If you search for articles/videos by Troy Hunt (he's the guy behind the "HaveIBeenPwned" site), he's showcased a couple examples of questionable security practices by various firms, both IoT and otherwise.

There was a smart lock (I forget the name) that had a serious vulnerability, which enabled anyone to remotely unlock any door with that lock, with zero authentication. The guy who discovered it tried to get the company's attention, but they blew him off. Once he wrote a blog post that went viral, the company fixed the bug within a week. That's mainly why I refuse to install things like smart locks in my house, even though I'm a tech geek.

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Originally Posted by psicodude View Post
IMO, any home security related device cannot rely on the internet to work. Just too many issues with downtime, latency, etc. A device that records locally and then backs up to the cloud is fine, just not one that directly records to the cloud like Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc.
I try to stay away from any proprietary/cloud-based systems now unless I have to, for that very reason. The name escapes me right now, but there was a home automation brand that recently announced they're going out of business, essentially rendering all of their devices worthless.

Last edited by Stealth22; 03-28-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:07 PM   #17
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It's less concerning for exterior cameras, but I'd think long and hard about any that I put inside my house, and how to prevent any access. The problem with anything plugged into the internet is that no matter what you do, if it has internet access, it has a way out. And I have no way of knowing what is in the firmware, and what it might be doing, and how it might be hiding that. Same with smart home stuff with mic's in them. No thank you.
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:57 PM   #18
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It's not surprising that Hikvision cameras have lax security. Their software is pretty awful. We have them in our condo building and I can't begin to tell you how long it took to teach our older board members how to use it.

They're only recording public areas so I'm not too concerned and they do work great.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:06 PM   #19
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I try to stay away from any proprietary/cloud-based systems now unless I have to, for that very reason. The name escapes me right now, but there was a home automation brand that recently announced they're going out of business, essentially rendering all of their devices worthless.
Iris by Lowes. Absolutely brutal and a lesson we can all learn. Could you imagine if Nest, Hue, or Alexa suddenly ceased operations (next to zero chance, I know, but an alarming example.)?

I'm an IT professional as well and have taken many of the same steps as you. It's scary to think about how many people, like my parents, just plug these devices in and don't think twice about it.
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Old 03-29-2019, 07:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psicodude View Post
With cameras specifically, the question in my mind is which is worse: Doing the work to secure an IOT device on my own or trusting a cloud-hosted solution? IMO, any home security related device cannot rely on the internet to work. Just too many issues with downtime, latency, etc. A device that records locally and then backs up to the cloud is fine, just not one that directly records to the cloud like Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc.

I suppose it's a tradeoff though.
As I posted earlier I have 4 Nest cams and they work flawlessly. Nest is owned by amazon who I am confident has a good idea about cyber security.

You bring a good point to segregate the devices on a guest network, but I have yet to see evidence that Ring products under Amazon are a major risk. Enough so to say they shouldn’t be considered.
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