Practice notes Jan 4. Rittich says he is ready to go.

[sureLoss]

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
When asked about his return to practice, #Flames David Rittich just said, “I felt good. Ready to go.” Bill Peters hasn’t named a starting goaltender for tomorrow’s game yet, but I’m guessing we’ll see Rittich.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
When asked about his return to practice, #Flames David Rittich just said, “I felt good. Ready to go.” Bill Peters hasn’t named a starting goaltender for tomorrow’s game yet, but I’m guessing we’ll see Rittich.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't get Peters' fascination with Bennett. Frolik is a better solution with Backlund and Tkachuk. Bennett should be playing with Ryan and Hathaway for the foreseeable future.

I don't think it's a fascination as he rotates all of Frolik, Bennett, Neal and Czarnik through there looking for the magical production that the line should have with two skilled players.

If you don't like an option (your case Bennett) just wait and like Calgary weather it will change soon.

Linemate	GP	TOI	CF%	G+/-	GF%	xG+/-	xGF%
SAM.BENNETT	18	144.97	55.15	3	63.64	1.69	56.41
MICHAEL.FROLIK	16	121.55	57.62	4	66.67	1.65	58.14
JAMES.NEAL	28	73.9	54.48	-2	25	-0.67	42.67
AUSTIN.CZARNIK	16	61.27	59.54	-2	33.33	0.71	55.66

The Bennett and Frolik options are pretty much identical ... mid 50s CF%, similar expected GF%

Using another site here is the scoring chance generation ... this is where Bennett's numbers take off and why Peters keeps going back to that trio.

Linemate	GP	TOI	CF%	SCF%	HDCF%
Sam Bennett	40	178	54.33	57.34	55.38
Michael Frolik	25	127	56.94	54.72	48.15

With Frolik the group gives up more Grade A chances than they generate, while with Bennett they have the lion's share.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I just dont get what Peters is doing with that second line....they are just better with Frolik there....full stop.

Has to be "a thing" between the two of them at this point, and thats no good for anyone.

Easy to access data just doesn't support this at all.

[Geeoff]

I think what's most important is to get the most out of Tkachuk, since he is the dynamic offensive player on the second line. I think we can say that Peters has been successful in that regard.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I think what's most important is to get the most out of Tkachuk, since he is the dynamic offensive player on the second line. I think we can say that Peters has been successful in that regard.

Not to bash on Peters but I think that's an indication of just how good Tkachuk is. Backlund, Bennett and Frolik are just poor finishers as a whole despite the sheer number of quality passes Tkachuk gives.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Easy to access data just doesn't support this at all.

I think because Bennett has had hard luck around the net it's confused with bringing the overall play of the line down. As you say though the data doesn't back up that the line is better with Frolik and Peters seems to share this opinion at times. I'm not going to argue with the coach at this point as he has for the most part pressed all the right buttons this season.

[Vinny01]

When Bennett is full engaged in a game like he was against the Sharks, Tampa, Edmonton he is a difference maker regardless if he puts up points.

They can’t let Walsh’s comments influence their decision but i can see that happening but unfortunately for Frolik it may have the opposite effect. Go public crying about playing time is not the way to get playing time it is how you get traded.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think because Bennett has had hard luck around the net it's confused with bringing the overall play of the line down. As you say though the data doesn't back up that the line is better with Frolik and Peters seems to share this opinion at times. I'm not going to argue with the coach at this point as he has for the most part pressed all the right buttons this season.

Exactly ... there hasn't been a good fit.

Frolik is consistent with poor finish.
Bennett is energy/physicality/speed with poor finish.
Neal doesn't seem to be able to keep up and isn't as good defensively.
Czarnik is Casper the Friendly Ghost.

I'm not suggesting Bennett is the answer at all, but to say Peters is playing favourites by having him there is silly ... he brings something, and all the other options have issues too.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Easy to access data just doesn't support this at all.

Problem is production trumps fancy stats. Bennett just doesn't produce as well as Frolik. 2.19 P/60 versus 1.40 P/60. Bennett just doesn't have the same finishing capability as even Frolik, and that's a big problem.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Problem is production trumps fancy stats. Bennett just doesn't produce as well as Frolik. 2.19 P/60 versus 1.40 P/60. Bennett just doesn't have the same finishing capability as even Frolik, and that's a big problem.

A lot of Frolik's production has come away from those two players though ... they are +4 with Frolik and +3 with Bennett ... one goal five on five different in terms of differential.

So production playing away from players you want him playing with doesn't trump much of anything.

And once again .. it's not fancy. It's counting. They get more positive counts with Bennett and Frolik than Neal and Czarnik. They get more close in counts off the pass/tip with Bennett than any of the four.

Counting .. not fancy. Don't let this stuff spook you.

[puckedoff]

I also think the 2nd line is better with Frolik, but the same can be said about the 3rd line (I'll say it - the 3rd line is better with Frolik). So maybe he can get those other guys going a bit.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly ... there hasn't been a good fit.

Frolik is consistent with poor finish.
Bennett is energy/physicality/speed with poor finish.
Neal doesn't seem to be able to keep up and isn't as good defensively.
Czarnik is Casper the Friendly Ghost.

I'm not suggesting Bennett is the answer at all, but to say Peters is playing favourites by having him there is silly ... he brings something, and all the other options have issues too.

Neal is also a poor finisher, Bennett and Frolik are the best offensive options, I think Bennett is the best overall option.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bennett produces like a third or strong fourth liner. That also meets the eyeball test when watching him play. That's where he should be. Frolik produces as a second or strong third liner, that's where he should be. The only thing that spooks me is Sam Bennett being thrust into a position he is incapable of playing, and Peters continuing to do it. It is almost as disturbing as the continual trotting out of Mike Smith, just with not as bad overall results.

[SuperMatt18]

Frolik, Backlund, Tkachuk
4.37 GF/60
1.94 GA/60
14.29 Shooting Percentage
.915 Save Percentage


Bennett, Backlund, Tkachuk
2.83 GF/60
1.62 GA/60
8.14 Shooting Percentage
.943 Save Percentage


So big change is the on ice shooting percentage between the pairs that changes the GF production.

However one thing that may skew the counting stats is that Frolik (3), Tkachuk (1), and Backlund (2) have 6 combined empty net goals - so that may skew things production wise depending on what combo of players was on the ice for those goals.

I'm too lazy to go look that up though.

Should add though that I personally like Bennett on the third line more than Bennett on the second line. But that has nothing to do with performance on the second line. I just think Bennett is more of a play driver than Frolik who's a better support player. Our bottom 6 is more effective with Bennett there than Frolik, and I think that is a bigger gap then the slight lift we might get from Bennett on line two.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly ... there hasn't been a good fit.

Frolik is consistent with poor finish.
Bennett is energy/physicality/speed with poor finish.
Neal doesn't seem to be able to keep up and isn't as good defensively.
Czarnik is Casper the Friendly Ghost...

On that note, it's nice to see Czarnikl back in for a second consecutive game. I thought yesterday's was his best game of the season. Maybe it's something to build on.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Easy to access data just doesn't support this at all.

Here is my even easier accessed data.

Bennett on a 27 point pace...yet again. Playing 14 minutes a night including 1:30 PP time per game.

Frolik on a 36 point pace with :05 PP time a game, 12 minutes a game...etc etc

2nd line needs offensive production...as in secondary scoring.

One guy is miles better than the other at providing it although I agree neither is a long term answer.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Here is my even easier accessed data.

Bennett on a 27 point pace...yet again. Playing 14 minutes a night including 1:30 PP time per game.

Frolik on a 36 point pace with :05 PP time a game, 12 minutes a game...etc etc

2nd line needs offensive production...as in secondary scoring.

One guy is miles better than the other at providing it although I agree neither is a long term answer.

27% of Frolik’s points this season and 33% of his goals are thanks to an empty net.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bennett produces like a third or strong fourth liner. That also meets the eyeball test when watching him play. That's where he should be. Frolik produces as a second or strong third liner, that's where he should be. The only thing that spooks me is Sam Bennett being thrust into a position he is incapable of playing, and Peters continuing to do it. It is almost as disturbing as the continual trotting out of Mike Smith, just with not as bad overall results.

I'm not going to defend Bennett's production, but there is nothing in Frolik's game now that says iron clad second line player.

He's a great shut down guy, and plays an honest defensive conscious role on any line, but he's not a top six player any more.

But there is nothing spooky about Bennett getting a look on that line given the other options available to Peters. The numbers suggest exactly why he keeps going back to it and he should.

I don't mind Frolik there, I don't mind Bennett there. I wish there was a better option but there just isn't as Neal soils that line every time he joins it.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by New Era

Problem is production trumps fancy stats. Bennett just doesn't produce as well as Frolik. 2.19 P/60 versus 1.40 P/60. Bennett just doesn't have the same finishing capability as even Frolik, and that's a big problem.

can you rerun those stats after removing the three frolik empty net goals that he has this season?

THose would likely be increasing his stats and they shouldn't be counted.