The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare

[Johnny199r]

Not a surprise at all. They clearly breached their duty of care for their child.

[Cube Inmate]

Feels like a victory for "law" and "common sense," but a victory in which everyone loses.

[Fuzz]

Good precedent. You can bet they will appeal though.

[burn_this_city]

So glad they're guilty, was really worried they wouldn't be convicted.

[peter12]

Guilty for both.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

but a victory in which everyone loses.

I don't see it that way at all. Hopefully it can prevent future and additional unnecessary suffering and loss of life of the youngest and most vulnerable people in our society.

Hell, don't forget that these two still have children they can harm in the same manner.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I don't see it that way at all. Hopefully it can prevent future and additional unnecessary suffering and loss of life of the youngest and most vulnerable people in our society.

Hell, don't forget that these two still have children they can harm in the same manner.

Oh no doubt -- there are societal and "future" benefits to this. Depending on the sentence, their surviving kids might have a chance to escape CrazyTown, but I suspect it's more likely they'll be fostered with family.

I think it's a correct and just decision; it's just that unlike some convictions / acquittals (e.g. OJ finally goes to jail), there's no sense of joy to be had at this one.

[jar_e]

There is a very similar court case scheduled for later this year in Calgary which has very similar circumstances. I imagine it'll play out very similar.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...lice-1.2437558

Calgary police have now charged a woman in the death of her 7-year-old son, who they allege died after she tried to treat his strep infection with holistic remedies.

Tamara Sophia Lovett, 44, is charged with criminal negligence causing death and failing to provide the necessaries of life. Police say her son, Ryan, was bedridden for 10 days before being taken to hospital when he had a seizure. He was pronounced dead shortly after.

Under the Criminal Code of Canada, it is a legal requirement for a parent or guardian to provide the necessaries of life, which are defined by the courts as food, shelter, care and medical attention necessary to sustain life and protection from harm.

"If you do not provide medical attention to your sick child, you will be held accountable," Staff Sgt. Mike Cavilla said at a press conference Friday afternoon.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think that a lot of the time there is a presumption of expertise from doula's or midwives based on their proximity to the mother. I have read, and experienced first-hand that they often feel compelled to give advice based on their anecdotal experience, but with very little recourse to medical advice or diagnostic technology.

A good anecdote from my recent experience: a friend of mine and her husband have different views on birth. He is a science teacher, and she is more of a home hippie type. She insisted on both a doula and midwife. Later in the pregnancy, the doula came over to their place on a Saturday to spend some time with the mother-to-be and give her stomach a massage. She said that based on how the baby felt in the womb that the fetus might have breached. My friend called the midwife, who came over, and confirmed the doula's "diagnosis."

My friend panics, and the doula/midwife combo, instead of taking her for an ultrasound, immediately start going through some of the less-invasive treatments for a breached baby.

On Monday, my friend's husband took her to the doctor, who sent her for an ultrasound, which gave her the all-clear.

Both of the above are being used increasingly as a substitute, and not a complement, to obstetrics medicine.

As someone that is currently going through a pregnancy with a midwife, I can tell you that from my experience, it is NOTHING like this. (Hell, maybe we just got a good midwife)...

But, our midwife is VERY medically trained (over 15 years as a delivery RN) and has never TOLD us what to do outside of regular medical techniques. For my wife and I, it allows us to sit down and have a conversation about things such as epidurals, Vitamin K, eye ointment, tearing, labour, etc, and make decisions on our with her advice. 99.9% of the time, she sides on the side of regular medicine.

I see it as dealing with a regular doctor, but instead of seeing a doctor for 4 minutes per checkup (this is a fact. Doctors see pregnant patience for FOUR minutes per appointment), we have a 30-60 minute, 1-on-1 appointment. The care we have received up to this point is 2nd to none.

We also have our choice to deliver in a hospital with the midwife doing the delivery, so it has nothing to do with having a home birth, either. It's about the care my wife gets.

[foshizzle11]

It was tough to read this article but I thought I would share from CBC, it is a couple weeks old but it details what happened the few weeks leading up to the toddlers death.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...port-1.3533174

I agree with many in here, I am happy with the guilty verdict. I can't even imagine watching any child suffer as this boy must have. My stepson gashed his knee pretty good on the weekend with a crow bar breaking apart some pallets in our backyard, he was bawling and bleed pretty well. Even something that isn't life threatening you feel for them and don't want them to get hurt like that. I can't imagine this, he was too stiff to put into his car seat two days prior to seeking medical advice from a hospital, two days. That is nuts to me.

[polak]

So now that they're guilty what's their sentence? What's the range?

[peter12]

Up to 5 years. Arraignment for sentencing is on June 18.

[polak]

It'd be nice if they made an example out of them although I doubt they get the max as they didn't just ignore the child. They're just terribly stupid and clueless.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Okay, easy with the foreboding end sentence there, Dateline.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I won't defend the system but I'm a foster dad, I took my 25 year old university graduate ex crack dealing gang member for coffee last night, he calls me dad, as do most of my foster kids at some point in time.

There are good foster parents and social workers out there, our kids do ok. I've got guys in the navy, building houses working in warehouses, they are all pretty well from the down town east side and would be dead, in jail or strung out in an alley if they hadn't been scooped and ended up with someone like me.

Not only that, but we are up the creek without a paddle if the foster system doesn't at least attempt to help.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Myofascial release. Perhaps a physiotherapist could have performed this as well, I'm not sure.

Or a massage therapist, or you do it yourself.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by peter12

So why is he a chiropractor? Seriously. Why isn't he a massage therapist (equally bogus in regards to claims of long-term efficacy) or a physiotherapist.

Talk to any chiropractor long enough, and you will find a quack hiding beneath the surface.

Studies have shown that even having another person put their hands on you, and talk to you can have a similar placebo effect.

Oh, and in the "it happened to me" file, a chiropractor broke one of my brother's back, and the problem had to be fixed with major surgery. The chiropractor had no clue why my brother was beset with crippling headaches, and neurological pain in his lower legs, he just recommended another 6 months of treatments.

Massage therapist is only bogus if there is a structural problem and you think a massage will solve it.

But for sore muscles, injuries that take a long time to heal, fascia issue, etc, etc a massage therapist can work wonders.

Example, you sprain your ankle and it is taking forever to heal. Go get a massage therapist to work on it.

[Thor]

A friend of mine, one of the trainers from Biggest loser Iceland is good friends with one of the most famous chiropractors in Iceland, who is a great guy but chiros are pretty much BS.

Anyhow his wife just graduated and will now specialize in Children, it makes me queasy thinking about it, and on FB everyone is congratulating her and saying "can't wait to take my child to you!"...

[Azure]

Well I've seen kids that can't walk be taken to a chiro treatment, come home, and walk within a few days.

What is going on there?

[Thor]

Jesus?