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Old 12-01-2020, 07:24 PM   #6881
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I didn't say it wasn't important, I said it wasn't as important.

In fact, they are probably more concerned about false positives, as millions of false positives out there would create significant other problems.
So accuracy is important? Sorry, it's hard to figure out what your point is when you flip flopping worse than a fish out of water.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:25 PM   #6882
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I didn't say it wasn't important, I said it wasn't as important.

In fact, they are probably more concerned about false positives, as millions of false positives out there would create significant other problems.
False negatives are always worse than false positives.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:28 PM   #6883
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Anyone thinking that widespread regular rapid testing is remotely feasible should do the math on the numbers required. Abbott is the biggest player and they've scaled up to the point where they can produce 600M of them a year. That would get the average American adult one test every 6 months.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:30 PM   #6884
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Originally Posted by stazzy33 View Post
So accuracy is important? Sorry, it's hard to figure out what your point is when you flip flopping worse than a fish out of water.
'Important' is a relative term.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:31 PM   #6885
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False negatives are always worse than false positives.
In diagnostics, sure...but population level screening is a different kettle of fish. False positives and false negatives create different problems.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:32 PM   #6886
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Do you really think it is a problem after we just announced another $100B in COVID spending? Give me a break. The benefits of rapid testing are well-established in the scientific community. Government should be pouring money into this, but they don't because governments are bad at prioritizing and spending money.

Do I think they should be wasted on going to a restaurant? No.
The flaw in your continued oversimplified humping of rapid testing is the pandemic has created an almost entirely new field of medical inquiry.

High Quality Spit.
(which incidentally is also a great name for a punk band, but I digress).

A large portion of the costs of administering rapid testing in a restaurant are employing a competent medical professional to administer the test.

People canít figure out masks, so fool proof rapid testing for Covid unfortunately has a long way to go.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:34 PM   #6887
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Anyone thinking that widespread regular rapid testing is remotely feasible should do the math on the numbers required. Abbott is the biggest player and they've scaled up to the point where they can produce 600M of them a year. That would get the average American adult one test every 6 months.
The Abbott tests are not the rapid antigen tests that are being proposed. They're good, but too costly and less convenient.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:36 PM   #6888
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Originally Posted by Boreal View Post
The flaw in your continued oversimplified humping of rapid testing is the pandemic has created an almost entirely new field of medical inquiry.

High Quality Spit.
(which incidentally is also a great name for a punk band, but I digress).

A large portion of the costs of administering rapid testing in a restaurant are employing a competent medical professional to administer the test.

People canít figure out masks, so fool proof rapid testing for Covid unfortunately has a long way to go.
You're wrong.

Rapid antigen paper tests don't need a healthcare professional.

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Old 12-01-2020, 07:46 PM   #6889
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Originally Posted by BoLevi View Post
In diagnostics, sure...but population level screening is a different kettle of fish. False positives and false negatives create different problems.
I should have known better than to get sucked in.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:50 PM   #6890
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We haven't seen the cases jump to another ledge yet. Can we get hopeful that they will start plateauing soon?
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:52 PM   #6891
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Wasn't yesterday a new high? Seems a little early to get hopeful. I've abandoned all hope. Its all suck, all the way down.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:59 PM   #6892
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You're wrong.

Rapid antigen paper tests don't need a healthcare professional.

Please come with a better source than a video that was uploaded to this thread months ago, like youíre some kind of sage.

A lot of people have seen it. Hmmm... if itís that simple... why hasnít it been distributed.

Can you tell me Michael Minaís expertise in the administration, adjudication, and application of medical testing protocols procedures safety and reliability? Right. And I donít need a pharmacist to take my pills either.

Heís a researcher and a physician. Yeah heís super smart on the science, logistics are a completely different field.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:00 PM   #6893
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Hinshaw today started the soft open on the "you can't have Christmas dinner with your family" thing. I think they need to rip the band-aid off on that as soon as possible, but at least they're talking about it.

My family members are all trying to convince me to come see them for Christmas. It was relatively easy to convince my dad that it was a terrible idea for anyone to do that, but my mom, who is generally extremely stubborn, is a tougher sell, despite the fact that she has her own 92 year old mother to be concerned with.

I dunno, unless they step it up with the enforcement I think we're pretty screwed.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:09 PM   #6894
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If that wasn’t important there would be no ‘good enough’.
If an antibody test was even 50% accurate at catching cases before they are contagious and people could take one every day Covid would disappear at the current level of restrictions.

The problem is that people would use a negative as a license to go out more so you probably need about 80% accuracy to cut transmission by 50%.

You want a a low false postive, higher false negative type test for widespread testing if you can’t have both.

The problem is that you need 30 million per day in Canada alone.

(All numbers made up)

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Old 12-01-2020, 08:24 PM   #6895
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Hinshaw today started the soft open on the "you can't have Christmas dinner with your family" thing. I think they need to rip the band-aid off on that as soon as possible, but at least they're talking about it.

My family members are all trying to convince me to come see them for Christmas. It was relatively easy to convince my dad that it was a terrible idea for anyone to do that, but my mom, who is generally extremely stubborn, is a tougher sell, despite the fact that she has her own 92 year old mother to be concerned with.

I dunno, unless they step it up with the enforcement I think we're pretty screwed.
I've been thinking through this recently actually. I'm an only child and in many ways, I feel like going back for Christmas dinner with them should be fine but in some ways, feel like we shouldn't even risk anything even with the low risk. My bubble is very small and consists of only my girlfriend. I've seen my parents throughout covid about once every two months or so for dinner at their home, but haven't seen them since the second wave in BC.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:28 PM   #6896
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Please come with a better source than a video that was uploaded to this thread months ago, like youíre some kind of sage.

A lot of people have seen it. Hmmm... if itís that simple... why hasnít it been distributed.

Can you tell me Michael Minaís expertise in the administration, adjudication, and application of medical testing protocols procedures safety and reliability? Right. And I donít need a pharmacist to take my pills either.

Heís a researcher and a physician. Yeah heís super smart on the science, logistics are a completely different field.
The Medcram video I linked was from November 25th. It's an update on the current status of rapid antigen tests.

The consensus at the moment is that the barrier to rapid antigen tests is largely regulatory. We certainly have the ability to distribute these things and they aren't that complicated to take/administer. About the same as a pregnancy test. Do you think we should be limiting women's access to pregnancy tests because they are difficult to administer "safely and reliably"?
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:28 PM   #6897
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Part of the issue is, how are you getting there? If you're flying, that's a terrible idea. If you're driving, fine, but be prepared for the weather. I wouldn't be willing to commit to that drive in the last week of December, especially not knowing how it'll look on the way back a week later.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:39 PM   #6898
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The Medcram video I linked was from November 25th. It's an update on the current status of rapid antigen tests.

The consensus at the moment is that the barrier to rapid antigen tests is largely regulatory. We certainly have the ability to distribute these things and they aren't that complicated to take/administer. About the same as a pregnancy test. Do you think we should be limiting women's access to pregnancy tests because they are difficult to administer "safely and reliably"?
Last time I checked pregnancy tests have been around for a while and if I screw it up then I can NOT potentially infects other people with anything.

The analogy is useful, but limited.

Your arguments are completely circular.

ďWe need rapid tests!!!Ē

No one argues this. Itís a great idea. But if it was as oversimplified and straightforward as it is in your head it would be completed.

ďYou can properly test at home!!Ē

If you can then why havenít tests been pumped out like chewing gum?

ďThe problem is regulatory!!!Ē

How is the ability to ensure adequate accurate tests at home not a regulation exactly?
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