[GT] The Athletic - Top 50 Drafted NHL Prospects - 2 Flames Make Cut

[Heavy Jack]

Weitz bud, get your jabs in while can here during the dog days of summer! November’s ‘Oilbernation’ for posters like yourself comes quick!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would say they are.

Something else to consider is the reciprocal impact of bias on the part of observers outside of the market. We have watched Fox closely precisely because he was Flames property and we are Flames fans. But he suddenly gained a tonne of additional outside-market attention when at first he 1) allegedly declined a contract offer from the Flames last year, and opted to return to College; 2) was then seemingly abruptly moved when it looked like the Flames would eventually lose him to UFA; 3) then again declined to sign with Carolina a year later, thus prompting another trade.

All of this activity dramatically increased Adam Fox's own visibility, and I think arguably contributed significantly to increasing his own stock elsewhere.

Absolutely.

I can't think of any lists that Fox was high on before the trade. Part of that is because nobody is paying attention to Flames' prospects, but the minute there is a suggestion that he might not sign with the team that drafted him, everyone stops to pay attention as to why he might become a free agent, and lo and behold, they found out he was good!

However, they assume that because he's a college free agent that he's a very special player. I don't see that. A good NHLer is possible, but he has some noticeable holes in his skill set that may not let him achieve a regular NHL job. College hockey does not provide the same pressure on defensemen that the NHL or even the AHL does. Watch clips of Fox and you will see that he often has all day to make a pass and regularly walks into the slot unmolested. I don't think he'll be able to translate his offense to the next level as he is now. He doesn't have the mobility or speed to get away from checkers, and I suspect his skills make him average at best in his own zone, possibly a liability because he doesn't have the size or speed to stick with guys.

Now, I'm not trying to say he's not talented, he surely is, but I sincerely believe he will struggle to stick in the NHL because he's not well-rounded at all. Perhaps he can work on it and improve, but there are so many prospects that have a better chance of being a full-time NHLer. People get wowed by the numbers and the skills, but fail to realize that defense in the NHL is by far the hardest position to break into. So much is required to be an NHL defenseman, more than any other position IMO.

Time will tell with Fox, but having him ranked this high is about journalists getting caught up in the glitz rather than looking with a critical eye. They aren't scouts after all.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I watched a lot of Oilers games last year and Lucic was usually amongst the worst players for either team. I would be surprised if he’s a regular in the press box in the 2nd half of the season.

I would be surprised too... I’m thinking you meant I wouldn’t be surprised but still I think that is a pretty large exaggeration considering how we deployed Neal for much of the season outside his injuries (better hope he doesn’t lose his fake teeth again Oilers fans or you can kiss 3 weeks goodbye). Lucic can still provide elements to a bottom six on a SOLID roster of which the Oilers were anything but the last two years, yet he still helped drive possession, was a physical deterrent and was a positive corsi player while playing with hot garbage for line mates. I reserve to hold my judgment on the trade until I see actual, visible data which will come soon enough but the idea that this trade is an out right disaster for the Flames is laughable and the people who are holding that opinion have forgotten just how bad The Real Heel James Neal was for this team last year especially when the game was on the line.

Edit: Cali’s post helped me realize we shouldn’t be talking about Lucic though (thanks Weitz), there’s enough threads about him as it is. Sorry for helping the mini derail!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Coincidentally thats when his stock around here plummeted too. Just like Lucic suddenly isn't the worst player in the NHL anymore. Hyperbole for effect.

What are you talking about? Fox’s stock never plummeted. He was consistently among the top-five or six of the Flames prospects in the months leading up to the trade, and was then ranked essentially in the same spot after.


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[bubbsy]

lol, I love how much this is annoying the resident oiler fan.

Flames traded their WORST player for the oiler's 4th or 5th best forward, and the oilers had to eat money.

too funny. man the oilers are a joke.

[1qqaaz]

I didn't like the Hamilton trade at the time, because I thought Fox was the best prospect in the system - even better than Valimaki.

But I was wrong. It was a great trade, especially with the Lindholm extension. The fact of the matter is that they drafted Fox with a third round pick and got great value for him. For that, I'm willing to give the Flames' management credit.

As for this list, as long as the Flames keep drafting guys with upside, I don't care how many of them are deemed to be elite.

[1991 Canadian]

https://theathletic.com/194852/2018/...nhl-prospects/

This NHL prospect ranking was from Jan 16, 2018. Fox was the 16th ranked prospect. Kylington was ranked 28th. Valimaki was ranked 39th. Dube was an honourable mention.

All 4 players are still trending to be effective NHL players. It might be a minority opinion on here, but I hope Fox kills it. The Flames got great value back for him with Lindholm/Hanafin.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

https://theathletic.com/194852/2018/...nhl-prospects/

This NHL prospect ranking was from Jan 16, 2018. Fox was the 16th ranked prospect. Kylington was ranked 28th. Valimaki was ranked 39th. Dube was an honourable mention.

All 4 players are still trending to be effective NHL players. It might be a minority opinion on here, but I hope Fox kills it. The Flames got great value back for him with Lindholm/Hanafin.

Interesting to consider that all the players went up the rankings. Fox goes from 16th to 10th. Valimaki goes from 39th to 23rd, and Dube makes the list at 49th. Kylington did not make the list due to age. This obviously is a factor of some players graduating and not being considered prospects, but it also shows that these guys continued (if not improved) their development as well.

[TheIronMaiden]

On a side note elite prospects has the Flames prospect depth ranked 28th in the NHL, but they only included Calder eligible players.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

On a side note elite prospects has the Flames prospect depth ranked 28th in the NHL, but they only included Calder eligible players.

So no unsigned or college based prospects?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by agulati

So no unsigned or college based prospects?

Not sure, I wasn't about to pay 10 bucks a month to find exactly what they had to say.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Not sure, I wasn't about to pay 10 bucks a month to find exactly what they had to say.

Take one for the team.

[bubbsy]

Everyone's favourite, corey pronman (the Athletic) has put out his franchise prospect rankings.

He's got the flames dead last at 31st ranked.

He considers all the key kids graduated :
Key subtractions/graduations: Juuso Valimaki, Dillon Dube, Oliver Kylington, Andrew Mangiapane, Rasmus Andersson

He ranks the flames top 5 as:

1. Pettersson
2. Pelletier
3. Nikolaev
4. Wolf
5. Sveningsson (huh....)

[SportsJunky]

I don’t always agree with Pronman but he may not be too far off here. Dead last? I don’t know about that but the Flames could definitely do with a restocking of the cupboards.

I had hoped Frolik/Brodie/Stone might bring in some much needed picks or prospects. That idea seems misguided now.

[Strange Brew]

Dead last? That seems harsh, and that’s with the Zucker deal getting scuttled.

I don’t disagree that all the key young players will be on the big club next year and won’t be future prospects. That’s not a bad thing though.

[Rando]

These lists are great for views and are catnip for the rabid fan but ultimately they're meaningless.

[GullFoss]

Pronmans rankings are hot garbage. Lol...his entire competency rests on his ability to keep tabs and scouts 600 prospects. Good luck buddy. I can't believe people read his stuff.

You're far better off just using crowd-sourced Calgary Puck and other fan rankings.

The 31-of-31 looks ok to me through. We did graudate 4 guys last year...that's 20% of a team!

[activeStick]

Not too informed on other teams and their farm system, but for the Flames I'd agree they don't have anything flashy in the system. The top prospects for the organization are all on the big club, the Flames finished second overall and their key contributors are all young.

[bax]

What I don't understand is that he had us at 29th last year. If we had 5 guys graduate to the big club (that was 2nd in the league) how was our prospect pool ranked so poorly?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Not too informed on other teams and their farm system, but for the Flames I'd agree they don't have anything flashy in the system. The top prospects for the organization are all on the big club, the Flames finished second overall and their key contributors are all young.

Exactly; if you look at the ranking without considering the context, it doesn't look great. However, when you consider that we've been very fortunate and really hit on a lot of good players who have pushed their way onto the team in the last year or two, suddenly it doesn't seem so dire.
That being said, it might be time to try to bank some assets in exchange for some of our older players (which I'm sure Tre is trying to do).