Theoren Fleury Deserves to be in the HHOF - Frank Seravalli

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If the Habs or Leafs or any of those 80+ year old franchises retired jerseys for exciting players, they'd have no numbers left.

Where do you draw the line on # retirements? IMO, only #2 and #12 should be retired.

Theo is in the conversation for HOF based on his points and a championship, but he's not # retirement material.

I think that jersey retirements are something different than just play on the ice, that is what the Hall of Fame and record books are for. For a number to be retired, I think that it has a lot to do with the play on the ice, but also the community involvement and who the person was off the ice as well. Someone who meant a lot to the team and the city should be honored.

That is why Lanny should have his number retired by the Flames as he really defined the franchise for the first decade on the ice and really heavily involved off the ice as well.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I am stunned Lowe got in over some of the other candidates that were actually elite players in their career.

Hey! Need I remind you that nobody knows more about winning than that guy!

[powderjunkie]

Was Kevin Lowe better than any of the following defensemen?

Gary Suter
Doug Wilson
Gonchar
Kevin Hatcher
Randy Carlyle
James Patrick
Hamrlik
Desjardins
McCrimmon
Glen Wesley
Timonen
Duchesne
Schneider
Foote
Numminen


Maybe he has a case against a few of them, but I don't think it would be hard to come up with 10-20 d-men who will never get a sniff at the hall who were better players...


Lowe is 97th all time pts among defensemen (despite a decade on the Oilers juggernaut in the higest scoring era)
26th in games played. Still 2 less than 2x stanley cup champion Craig Ludwig (can't say that name has crossed my mind since I had hockey cards).

Jay Bouwmeester has a nearly identical career stat line in a very different era.

Hall of Lame.

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Was Kevin Lowe better than any of the following defensemen?

Gary Suter
Doug Wilson
Gonchar
Kevin Hatcher
Randy Carlyle
James Patrick
Hamrlik
Desjardins
McCrimmon
Glen Wesley
Timonen
Duchesne
Schneider
Foote
Numminen


Maybe he has a case against a few of them, but I don't think it would be hard to come up with 10-20 d-men who will never get a sniff at the hall who were better players...


Lowe is 97th all time pts among defensemen (despite a decade on the Oilers juggernaut in the higest scoring era)
26th in games played. Still 2 less than 2x stanley cup champion Craig Ludwig (can't say that name has crossed my mind since I had hockey cards).

Jay Bouwmeester has a nearly identical career stat line in a very different era.

Hall of Lame.

Wilson was just inducted as well.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Was Kevin Lowe better than any of the following defensemen?

Gary Suter
Doug Wilson
Gonchar
Kevin Hatcher
Randy Carlyle
James Patrick
Hamrlik
Desjardins
McCrimmon
Glen Wesley
Timonen
Duchesne
Schneider
Foote
Numminen


Maybe he has a case against a few of them, but I don't think it would be hard to come up with 10-20 d-men who will never get a sniff at the hall who were better players...


Lowe is 97th all time pts among defensemen (despite a decade on the Oilers juggernaut in the higest scoring era)
26th in games played. Still 2 less than 2x stanley cup champion Craig Ludwig (can't say that name has crossed my mind since I had hockey cards).

Jay Bouwmeester has a nearly identical career stat line in a very different era.

Hall of Lame.

He wasn’t as good as Suter, Wilson,Hatcher, or Carlisle. He was almost as good as McCrimmon or Foote, and maybe Hamrlik. Better than the others, I think.

[lazypucker]

Save the Fleury Flames retirement night till the new arena opens

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Was Kevin Lowe better than any of the following defensemen?

Gary Suter
Doug Wilson
Gonchar
Kevin Hatcher
Randy Carlyle
James Patrick
Hamrlik
Desjardins
McCrimmon
Glen Wesley
Timonen
Duchesne
Schneider
Foote
Numminen


Maybe he has a case against a few of them, but I don't think it would be hard to come up with 10-20 d-men who will never get a sniff at the hall who were better players...


Lowe is 97th all time pts among defensemen (despite a decade on the Oilers juggernaut in the higest scoring era)
26th in games played. Still 2 less than 2x stanley cup champion Craig Ludwig (can't say that name has crossed my mind since I had hockey cards).

Jay Bouwmeester has a nearly identical career stat line in a very different era.

Hall of Lame.

Funny you mention that. I read this article yesterday which totally pans Lowe's addition saying if he's a HOF player so is Roman Hamrlik;

https://awinninghabit.com/2020/06/25...owe-hall-fame/

It's easy to look at the opinions of this website and come to the conclusion that it's just bitter Flames fans but the reality is that it's not just Flames fans that are a little flabbergasted by the induction of a steady, complementary top four defenseman into the NHL Hall of Fame. Anyone that voted for him IMO needs to have their credentials revoked as they are either corrupt or have lost sight of what the Hall of Fame stands for.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Funny you mention that. I read this article yesterday which totally pans Lowe's addition saying if he's a HOF player so is Roman Hamrlik;

https://awinninghabit.com/2020/06/25...owe-hall-fame/

It's easy to look at the opinions of this website and come to the conclusion that it's just bitter Flames fans but the reality is that it's not just Flames fans that are a little flabbergasted by the induction of a steady, complementary top four defenseman into the NHL Hall of Fame. Anyone that voted for him IMO needs to have their credentials revoked as they are either corrupt or have lost sight of what the Hall of Fame stands for.

yeah that article covers alot of ground pretty well




But if just getting your name on the Cup a handful of times is enough, then when will Claude Provost get in? He was a depth piece on some of the greatest teams of all time when he played for the Habs in the late 1950’s. He stuck around through the 1960’s and won the Stanley Cup a total of nine times. If Lowe winning six makes him a Hall of Fame player, why isn’t Provost?
He played over one thousand games, has won the Stanley Cup more than anyone other than Henri Richard and Yvan Cournoyer and was named a First Team All-Star in 1965, beating out Gordie Howe on right wing. That gives him more individual accomplishments than Kevin Lowe who was never even a Norris finalist. Provost was also the very first winner of the Bill Masterton Trophy.



Lowe did once represent his country on the ice in the 1984 Canada Cup. Now, I don’t want to cast aspersions on him for that, but the team was picked by Edmonton Oilers Head Coach Glen Sather and Emonton Oilers Assistant Coach John Muckler. In a maneuver straight out of small-town Peewee Selects, the team would feature four Edmonton Oilers on defence. Again, I’m not saying there was a bias, but Lowe, Randy Gregg and Charlie Huddy were on the team, while Brad Park, Larry Murphy and Rob Ramage were not. Denis Potvin being injured at the time also helped.
Lowe couldn’t make the Canada Cup team three years later, being beat out by not Hall of Famers like James Patrick, Craig Hartsburg, Normand Rochefort and Doug Crossman. That’s not to say the aforementioned are awful defencemen, they just aren’t Hall of Fame members.
But Kevin Lowe is. The guy who played the entire decade with on the highest scoring team ever, and was outscored by Robert Picard, Moe Mantha, Mark Hardy, even teammates Charlie Huddy and Reijo Ruostalainen (who only played six years) scored more than Lowe in the 1980’s.
Lowe was far from the best offensive defenceman in the world at any time. If he was close to the best defensively, he would have made the Canada Cup in 1981 or 1987 or 1991, but he didn’t.
So, what makes him a Hall of Fame player? That he won a lot? Well then Claude Provost should be in next year. Is it that he played so many games and was a top four defenceman most of that time? Well if that’s what makes a player Hall of Fame worthy, let’s get Roman Hamrlik in next year.
It’s not like Lowe has accomplished so much in the 19 years since he retired that he has improved his resume. In fact, the way he ran the Oilers from the management side should give him demerits from the Hall of Fame.

[Erick Estrada]

I would love the voters for Lowe to answer to these points. Unless they were greased I just can't understand how they could look at his body of work and declare it HOF worthy over more productive non-HOF players that were quite frankly better players.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would love the voters for Lowe to answer to these points. Unless they were greased I just can't understand how they could look at his body of work and declare it HOF worthy over more productive non-HOF players that were quite frankly better players.

my concern is the HOF will double down and turn around and admit Claude Provost, Bob Nystrom and Charlie Huddy next year because CUPZSZS instead of just judging players on their merit